Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[presidio9]

And you refuse to help. How unChristian of you.

But I did help. I told him to read his Bible. Instances of people praying for the dead are prevalent. You could look it up.

[Praxeus]

"Then Mary carried God in her womb"

Yes, as much as the ark and the temple housed God:

But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? - (1 Ki 8:27 KJV)

She carried an incarnate Christ, who was God and man. Not ALL of God's essence. God is omnipresent. If mary could have born GOD in totale, she would have been God..

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. - (John 3:34 KJV)

Mary's experience was with a "measure" of God's essence. She could not bear God because, simply put, you cannot get all of GOD in a womb or an other earthly vessel.

She bore God incarnate. Big difference.

[presidio9]

Can a manger bear GOD?

[Praxeus]

Can a manger bear GOD?

Ask Solomon.

[Desdemona]

She carried an incarnate Christ, who was God and man. Not ALL of God's essence.

How is it possible for Christ to be God and not have all of God's essence?

She could not bear God because, simply put, you cannot get all of GOD in a womb or an other earthly vessel.

Why not? God can be anywhere God wants to be. All things are possible with God. (that statement is in the bible)

[Havoc]

"To you mother of the human family and of nations we confidently entrust the whole of humanity with
it's hopes and fears. Do not let it lack the light of true wisdom. Guide it's steps in the ways
of peace. Enable all to meet Christ. Sustain us oh virgin mary on our journey of faith and
obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation" - Pope John Paul II - "Prayer for the Marian year"

[Havoc]

185

[Havoc]

Sorry, 186

[cupcakes]

Mr Thompson says that "this malign influence of Rome ought to cause all evangelical Protestants to reject The Passion of the Christ" and refuse to be swayed by the subtleties of the alleged arguments in favour of it.

_____

From the Belfast telegraph eh? This is the very reason the protestants and Catholics still hate each other over in those parts.

[cupcakes]

Mr Thompson also says that the film is "extremely violent", and that "anyone who watches it will be shaken and possibly terrified by its graphic and bloody scenes."
____

Can't be more terrifying, bloody, or graphic than the scenes in Belfast when Catholics and Protestants terrorize one another.

[Praxeus]

"How is it possible for Christ to be God and not have all of God's essence?"

I'll give you Phillipians 2:6-7 to answer:

7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form,
8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death-- even death on a cross. - (NSRV)

So it was an "emptied" (vs 7 NSRV) essence of God in Christ. It was impossible for ALL of God to be limited to a human form, Jesus was not limited to the earthly body. He was in heaven at the same time he was on earth:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. - (John 3:13 KJV)

The incarnation was a limiting of God's presence to a human body. This is what Mary bore. To say she bore God in any fashion other than derivatively is not accurate.

[Desdemona]

All things are possible with God. God the Son never left the body, never emptied from it. He emptied His humanity of all sin and became a slave for our sin.

What you say makes no sense. Either Christ was God or He wasn't. There are no shades of gray in this.

[OLD REGGIE]

A simple question: If Jesus was not God when He was in Mary's womb, when did He become so?

Never.

[Praxeus]

In fairness.. if you are a Catholic, John 3:13c does not appear in Alexandrian based Texts.

[dangus]

MOst emphatically accepted!

[Praxeus]

You are correct. He did not "become" God. He always was.

(Rev 1:8 KJV) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

[Praxeus]

Thank you.

[Havoc]

Mary is more akin to the Ark of the Covenant. The ark was a container that had in and of itself NO power, No authority, Nothing. It was, apart from it's designated role, useless. It was pretty, I'm sure. It's worth was not in what it was; but, in what it bore. Remove that from it, and it was of no consequence. I am, of course, speaking in pragmatic relativism. Mary has no authority, no power and no place in the Godhead. Mary is mother of a human body, not the creator of God. She is creation, not created. And there is no giving and taking in marriage in Heaven. Thus she is neither mother nor queen in heaven - such roles cannot exist there. Rome has blown her up into something she's not and has twisted the gospel in so doing.
How perverse and blasphemous it gets seems to depend on which catholics are involved. That is a shell game. It's never anyone who is present..

[presidio9]

"To you mother of the human family and of nations we confidently entrust the whole of humanity with it's hopes and fears. Do not let it lack the light of true wisdom. Guide it's steps in the ways of peace. Enable all to meet Christ. Sustain us oh virgin mary on our journey of faith and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation" - Pope John Paul II - "Prayer for the Marian year"

It really disgusts me that you would delibrately misquote the Pope to make your pathetic anti-Catholicism work. I had know idea that your obsession was this pronounced. The actual prayer actually goes like this:

Enable all to meet Christ, the Way and the Truth and the Life. Sustain us, O Virgin Mary, on our journey of faith and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation. O clement, O loving, O sweet Mother of God and our Mother, Mary!

You left the bolded part out because it destroys the point you were trying to make. That part of the prayer is the Pope's appeal to the Blessed Mother to help us know Christ better. As you may or may not know. The part you omitted is, of course, a direct referrence to John 14:6

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"

I am all to happy to expose you for the cheap charlatan that you are. You tellingly did not provide a link. The Pope's prayer, in its entirety, is here. You will be a much healthier person when you give up your irrational crusade against the RCC and focus on the things that are truely important.

[Mark17]

I'm a staunch Protestant and thought that the movie was wonderful. This review presents a very tiny minority opinion.

I am also a staunch protestant, and I enjoyed the movie. There were only a couple things I kept in perspective, but, for the most part, I enjoyed it.