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KERRY RETREATS FROM HIS DENIAL ON VIETNAM MEET - Evidence Puts Him At Kansas Parley
New York Sun ^ | Mar 19, 2004 | JOSH GERSTEIN

Posted on 03/19/2004 9:07:07 AM PST by kennedy

MILL VALLEY, Calif. — Senator Kerry of Massachusetts yesterday retreated from his earlier steadfast denials that he attended a meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which a plan to assassinate U.S. Senators was debated.

The reversal came as new evidence, including reports from FBI informants, emerged that contradicted Mr. Kerry’s previous statements about the gathering, which was held in Kansas City, Mo. in November 1971.

“John Kerry had no personal recollection of this meeting 33 years ago,” a Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, said in a statement e-mailed last night from Idaho, where Mr. Kerry is on vacation.

Mr. Wade said Mr. Kerry does remember “disagreements with elements of VVAW leadership” that led to his resignation, but the statement did not specify what the disagreements were.

“If there are valid FBI surveillance reports from credible sources that place some of those disagreements in Kansas City, we accept that historical footnote in the account of his work to end the difficult and divisive war,” the statement said.

It did not address the murder plot, though as recently as Wednesday a top aide to Mr. Kerry said that the Massachusetts senator and presumptive Democratic presidential nominee was “absolutely certain” he was not present when the assassination plan, known as the “Phoenix Project,” was discussed.

The New York Sun first reported last week that other anti-war activists placed Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting. A total of six people have now said publicly that they remember seeing Mr. Kerry there. Participants say the plot was voted down, and several say they remember Mr. Kerry speaking and voting against it.

A historian and expert on activism against the Vietnam War, Gerald Nicosia, provided the Sun yesterday with minutes of the meeting.

Mr. Nicosia also read quotes from FBI surveillance documents he obtained under the Freedom of Information Act as he was preparing his 2001 book, “Home to War.”

“My evidence is incontrovertible.He was there,” Mr. Nicosia said in an interview yesterday. “There’s no way that five or six agents saw his ghost there,” said the historian, who lives in Marin County, north of San Francisco.

Mr. Nicosia said that the records show Mr. Kerry resigned from the group on the third day of the meeting, following discussion of the assassination plan and an argument between Mr. Kerry and another VVAW national coordinator, Al Hubbard.

Reading from an FBI informant report, Mr. Nicosia said, “John Kerry at a national Vietnam Veterans Against the War meeting appeared and announced to those present that he resigned for personal reasons but said he would be able to speak for VVAW” at future events.Another document “describes a conversation actually a confrontation between John Kerry and Hubbard that was taking place on one of the days of that meeting,” Mr. Nicosia added.

Mr. Nicosia said it is clear that Mr. Kerry and the others resigned because of the extreme actions the group was considering.

“It’s kind of unmistakable to see a pattern. All four of them were out the door, bingo, the morning after” the socalled Phoenix plot was discussed, the author said.

Mr. Nicosia generally declined to speculate on why Mr. Kerry had denied being present. However, the author did observe, “Especially if you’re running for president, you don’t want to be associated with a plot for assassinating people.”

Mr. Nicosia repeatedly stressed that he was not calling Mr. Kerry a liar and said he has no animus towards the senator. The historian said he sent copies of some of the documents to the Kerry campaign yesterday morning on his own initiative. “I think Senator Kerry better get his story straight on this,”Mr. Nicosia said.

“I’m a Kerry supporter. I honor the guy,”Mr.Nicosia said.He noted that Mr. Kerry threw a book party for “Home at War” at the Hart Senate Office Building. The senator also wrote a positive blurb for the book’s dust jacket.

The book does not mention Mr. Kerry’s presence at the Kansas City meeting. Mr. Nicosia said he did not have the FBI files as he was writing the manuscript. Other accounts led him to think that Mr. Kerry had quit the group at a July meeting in St. Louis.

Mr. Nicosia also provided the Sun with minutes of the meeting that he obtained from the Wisconsin state archives, which hold most of VVAW’s papers.

The minutes, prepared at the group’s national office in New York, recount the actions taken by VVAW’s “emergency steering committee” during the four-day meeting, which ran from November 12 to 15, 1971. The minutes indicate that at the end of the day on Saturday, November 13, discussion turned to “national actions and other things.” The meeting is reported to have adjourned at 10 p.m. and resumed at 11 a.m. Sunday. The document goes on to say that the group passed a motion to hold a “national action… in 3 to 5 different sites.”The next entry in the minutes is, “John Kerry, Scott Moore, Mike Oliver and Skip Roberts resigned as national coordinators.” A later entry indicates that it was decided that the resignations and the decision on the “national action” should be reflected in all the group’s papers.

According to Mr. Nicosia, the FBI documents and other records do not include any direct reference to the assassination plot. However, Mr. Nicosia said some informants who attended the Kansas City meeting warned the FBI of a “drastic move toward more violent actions.”

A VVAW chapter newsletter obtained by the Sun reports that after “much argument” the Kansas City meeting went into closed session “for various opaque reasons of security and expediency in order to discuss the national Christmas action.” The newsletter also notes the resignation of Mr. Kerry and the other three leaders. It cites “personality conflicts and differences in political philosophies” as the main reasons for the resignations.

A group of VVAW members seized the Statue of Liberty on behalf of the group on December 27, 1971. It’s unclear whether that action was approved at the Kansas City meeting in November.

The three other men who appear to have resigned along with Mr. Kerry did not respond to requests for comment for this story.

Mr. Moore did not reply to an e-mail and messages left at his home. Mr. Roberts is now the legislative director for the Service Employees International Union, which is supporting Mr. Kerry’s presidential bid. Reached at his union office Wednesday, Mr. Roberts said he would call back but did not. Efforts to locate Mr. Oliver were unsuccessful.

Earlier in the week,some aides to Mr. Kerry suggested that because he appeared on a PBS “Firing Line” broadcast with William F. Buckley on November 14, 1971, Mr. Kerry could not have attended the Kansas City gathering. But that contention also disintegrated yesterday on closer examination.

Tapes of the “Firing Line” television program are housed at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. An archivist there, Carol Leadenham, told the Sun that Mr. Kerry and Mr. Buckley taped a program on November 2, 1971. No air date was noted, but Ms. Leadenham said it is likely that it aired about two weeks later.

“That’s about the usual time between the taping and the air date,” she said.

Some discrepancies in Mr. Kerry’s earlier statements about VVAW remain unaddressed by the campaign. Last week, Mr. Kerry said he last saw Mr. Hubbard in April 1971, shortly before a National Review article exposed Mr. Hubbard for exaggerating his rank and his service record in Vietnam. However, a New York Times report put Mr. Kerry at a fund-raiser with Mr. Hubbard on Long Island on August 29, 1971. Now, Mr. Nicosia’s documents indicate that Mr. Kerry had a verbal altercation with Mr. Hubbard in November of that year.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; antiamerican; antiwar; bush2004; congressman; congressmen; darkplot; flipflop; geraldnicosia; john; kerry; kerry2004; kerryfbifiles; kill; murder; nicosia; veteran; vietgate; vietnam; vvaw; war
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To: Criminal Number 18F
"The VVAW has made a statement on Kerry here [vvaw.org]. Reading between the lines, they don't seem to like him all that much either."

The VVAW didn't like him because he voted for the war in Iraq. They might change their tune since he has changed his.

BTW, it was this incarnation of the VVAW who sent around the Meet The Press transcript featuring Kerry's statements (with Al Hubbard) about being a war criminal. So we have them to thank for helping to get this story out.

Again, they were trashing him for what he said to Russert after the 1971 tape played. They thought he was backing down too much from his original comments.

John Kerry Is A Self-Admitted War Criminal
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1074482/posts
121 posted on 03/19/2004 10:37:09 AM PST by Hon
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To: John Thornton; Mo1; cyncooper; Hon
The story has been picked up by ABC News "The Note."
_____________________________________________________

We're not sure where this will go: "Senator Kerry of Massachusetts yesterday retreated from his earlier steadfast denials that he attended a meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which a plan to assassinate U.S. Senators was debated," reports Josh Gerstein in the New York Sun. LINK

"The reversal came as new evidence, including reports from FBI informants, emerged that contradicted Mr. Kerry's previous statements about the gathering, which was held in Kansas City, Mo. in November 1971."

"'John Kerry had no personal recollection of this meeting 33 years ago,' a Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, said in a statement e-mailed last night from Idaho, where Mr. Kerry is on vacation." "Mr. Wade said Mr. Kerry does remember 'disagreements with elements of VVAW leadership" that led to his resignation, but the statement did not specify what the disagreements were.'"

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html
122 posted on 03/19/2004 10:38:04 AM PST by EllaMinnow (Within fewer hours the "Freepern" succeed in tilting the tuning.)
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To: redlipstick

It's a start.
123 posted on 03/19/2004 10:38:55 AM PST by onyx (Kerry' s a Veteran, but so were Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh and Benedict Arnold.)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
Thanks for the info on the VVAW. I was a little busy fighting a war in Viet Nam at the time to be aware of the "wannabee" combat Viet Nam veterans protesting those of us who were actually fighting the war.
Semper Fi, Kelly

Viet Nam Veterans Against John Kerry
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com
124 posted on 03/19/2004 10:40:03 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. "C" 1/5 1st Mar Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi "KERRY IS A LYING TRAITOR!")
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To: Puddleglum
You know, at least he quit when the group advocated the assination attempts. I don't like Kerry one bit and don't know why he lied about this, but he deserves credit for at least refusing to go along with this idea.

But he continued to be a public face for the group and volunteered to continue speaking on their behalf, as I understand it. He didn't disavow the group entirely nor, it would seem, did he report their plot (reminiscent of his "testimony" about widespread war crimes undertaken with the full knowledge of U.S. command, which he also failed to report). Pretty early example of his inability to take a consistent stand. Plus I think this definitely invites further inquiry into his post-Vietnam activities. Is he still proud of his affiliation with the group? Are any of his band of brothers alumni of this scheme?

125 posted on 03/19/2004 10:41:39 AM PST by GraceCoolidge
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To: redlipstick; onyx
This story is to big for the liberal media to ignore
126 posted on 03/19/2004 10:41:46 AM PST by Mo1 (Do you want a president who injects poison into his skull for vanity?)
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To: kennedy
John Kerry has no personal recollection of this meeting.

C'mon, John, the moon was in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligned with Mars. Does that ring a bell now?

Another question - was Jane Fonda at this meeting John Kerry doesn't remember going to?

127 posted on 03/19/2004 10:43:02 AM PST by White Eagle
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To: kennedy
I lost a lot friends and family members and some that came back to be spit on in that war!!!

THAT POS SCUMBAG SHOULD BE JAIL NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!!!!
128 posted on 03/19/2004 10:43:09 AM PST by BiteMedems (Proud Voter of GWB Term One and Term Two)
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To: Mo1; onyx
I think Drudge will pick up on it soon.
129 posted on 03/19/2004 10:43:53 AM PST by EllaMinnow (Within fewer hours the "Freepern" succeed in tilting the tuning.)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
"One of the founders was Jan Crumb, who was a radio mechanic for an aviation unit in 1963, before the war got hot."

Yes, when Crumb was in VN we only had "advisors" there.

"Another was a gay-activist photographer (his name escapes me) who had been in the Navy but not during the Vietnam War."

Do you mean Craig Rogers, who was the PR man for the group at the start? Rogers was a chaplain's assistant. I've never heard he was gay and he was in VN during the war, so maybe you mean someone else.
130 posted on 03/19/2004 10:44:45 AM PST by Hon
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To: kennedy
Maybe this means we can convince him to commit Hari-Kari!!
131 posted on 03/19/2004 10:47:51 AM PST by ZULU (God Bless Senator Joe McCarthy!!!)
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To: Jim_Curtis
Bob Kerrey DID commit astrocities in Viet Nam....he has said so.
132 posted on 03/19/2004 10:48:25 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: mtbopfuyn
Kerry has no PERSONAL recollection....he's probably got the MINUTES of the meeting to assasinate 9 Senators!!
133 posted on 03/19/2004 10:52:06 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: redlipstick; Mo1
I think Drudge will pick up on it soon.

I am not optimistic, but I am hopeful.
It's too big of a story for all media to ignore.

134 posted on 03/19/2004 10:53:28 AM PST by onyx (Kerry' s a Veteran, but so were Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh and Benedict Arnold.)
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To: kennedy
Some how I think this is going to go the way of Larry Nicholes and the Clintons.........
135 posted on 03/19/2004 10:54:56 AM PST by FlatLandBeer
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When will John "Kerry's my maiden name" Thorne-Heinz and all the other liberals learn lying always catches up to you.
136 posted on 03/19/2004 10:55:04 AM PST by Rivothead
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To: Howlin
Now wait a minute everyone, it was a full agenda at at these meetings: overthrowing the government, killing senators, demonstrations, etc. No wonder he can't remember! :)

Someone has to ask Kerry this: as a serving Senator would you expect a citizen to report discussions of killing Senators to the FBI?

When he says yes it's a citizen's duty.

The appropriate response is: Then why didn't you do it?
137 posted on 03/19/2004 10:58:15 AM PST by BlessedByLiberty (Respectfully submitted,)
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Comment #138 Removed by Moderator

To: schmelvin
There are things people should not be able to discuss in front of you. This isn't some teen-aged prank any more than the actions of the Weather Underground or Al Qaeda are mere vandalism.
139 posted on 03/19/2004 11:07:02 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: ping jockey
Hillarottenclintoon

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner Alex!

The question becomes, why this shot, and why now.

140 posted on 03/19/2004 11:09:55 AM PST by blanknoone (Give Kerry enough nuance, and he will hang himself.)
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