MUSLIMS' OMINOUS WARNING TO FRANCE

New York Post ^ | 3/17/04 | ANDY SOLTIS

[Mamzelle]

In the school setting, I believe the administration should be provided with the *discretion* to make judgements about what garments are disrupting or distracting--and this would also include the Latest duds from Dixie Outfitters or Casual Chadors, if that was what the admin worried about. (But, I'd also like to see some basic and simple uniform required.)--and the community should support this discretion.

Hijab appeared at my local school directly after 9/11--it should have been disposed of at that point. Now, the family has some moral claim on its continuance. What's ironic...in the interest of opposing the bandanas that gangsters sometimes wear, the school does not allow the little triangular headscarves that were popular with girls a couple of years ago. That is, the Muslim girls were granted a special privilege...

[McGavin999]

I understand that you people have years, actually centuries of practice weaseling out of your responsibilities but it's not going to work against me. I never said I wanted it, I merely said I couldn't care less and would not lift a finger to help. You HAVE NO MORAL STANDING.

You can protest all you want, you can lie to yourselves as you unfailingly have all through history, but the simple fact is you are moral cowards. You alway have been, you always will be.

The french are morally decadent, their politicians are corrupt year after year after year. You leave your old people to die in the heat while you lounge around on the beaches and can't even interrupt your vacations to come home and bury your dead. No, you leave them in warehouses. What kind of people do that?

[Physicist]

I guess France isn't at war --- when we were at war with the Nazis, I doubt we allowed swastikas to be worn on the streets by adults or by children at school.

Considering that we put American citizens of Japanese ancestry in concentration camps, I would guess that's true. That doesn't make it right for swastikas to be outlawed. It should be the responsibility of the Nazi's neighbors to, uh, discourage that behavior.

The head gear shouldn't be the big issue though --- immigration from hostile countries would be the bigger issue. Same goes for us --- it shouldn't be about limiting freedom for our enemies after they get here but about not letting them come in the first place.

The issue that comes before even that is identifying who is the enemy and who is not. Perhaps if they would wear some sort of identifying symbol or article of clothing, it might be easier. Oh, I know! How about a headscarf?

[Atlantic Friend]

Spare me the attitude, Mr Mc Gavin. If you can justify support for terrorism by sheer prejudice and holier-than-thou BS, then don't blame me for setting your moral standards this low. As I said earlier on this thread, I, the morally coward, the morally corrupt, the morally decadent, won't play your justifying game. And it's not a subject open to debate, period.

[Bonaparte]

That's an intriguing timeline you've made. Flag me in April. Let's see how close you got. There's no doubt in my mind that the terrorists, clearly seeing europe's cowardice, will press their advantage just as they always have.

The problem with appeasing bullies is that it always incites them to further outrages. They can't be assuaged, only stomped. Same thing with paying off a blackmailer. His demands will only continue to escalate. There is only one response that makes any sense at all, and that is to hunt them down and finish them off in whatever way fits the situation.

[wjcsux]

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."-Winston Churchill

[Ciexyz]

Nobody on FR is advocating a bombing in France or Germany. But we ARE being realistic in that we recognize the changing moral climate in Europe. They appease but still cannot please the Islamoterrorists. We in the US recognize that the sound of BOOM BOOM will continue unabated for the near future. We have to harden ourselves to that fact, the way the Israelis have hardened themselves to the reality of homicide bombings within their country.

[Bonaparte]

L'Obsession anti-américaine, by Jean-François Revel

L'Ennemi américain, by Philippe Roger

Please forgive my presumption, but if you have not read these, I recommend them both. Roger, in particular, could change your view of what has been happening in franco-American relations -- and why.

[MortMan]

No Western government in its right mind lets this kind of murderers roam free. What I want right now is Western agencies sharing every bit of information they have, however vague, and organize joint operations to take down the bombers, wherever they are, and win this blighted shadowy war, be it in Spain, in France or in the US of A. Or better yet : in Spain, France AND the Us of A. As one of your great patriots once said, either we hang together, or we will be hanged separately.

This sentiment is right on the money. What angers many Americans is the official French response to our "taking the bull by the horns". I, for one, would much rather see these murderous thugs (the terrorists - just to prevent any misubderstanding of my choice of words) hunted down. But to do that, I believe it takes military force coupled with humanitarian work. Root out the combatants, and demonstrate to those around the combatants that they needn't fear us - unless they wish to join in the combat.

[F16Fighter]

WHAT?? France is threatened by Muslims??

Somebody ping me when news regarding the Effel Tower is Drudge's top story...

[FITZ]

That is, the Muslim girls were granted a special privilege...

Yes it seems they are. In the ranking of politically correct groups, they apparently are at the top. Here they can forbid the hispanic and black gang symbols from being worn to school --- Virgin of Guadalupe t-shirts are out, any clothing with "Raiders" is out, low-riding baggy pants are out, anything some gang member might wear can be considered to promote violence --- but the Muslim gang-clothing is allowed.

I have worked with Muslim women who will tell you the veil is associated with only the radicals --- moderate Persians and Turks wouldn't be caught with a hijab or burka except when forced.

[FITZ]

Still I think anyone who can't assimilate with Western people and wishes to keep their own ways so much should just be deported back home --- they should wear their veils or whatever kind of headgear back in their own Islamic homelands if they believe so much in Islam.

[Physicist]

And that goes for yarmulkes and crucifixes too, huh?

[Atlantic Friend]

In fact, I have read Revel's book, for he is one of my favorite authors. But what he describes is, in my opinion of course and from my Joe average point of view, more applicable to intellectual or political elites than to regular citizens. I will look for Roger's book, thanks for the reference.

Oh, I'm sure the average citizen has views, and sometimes strong views about America. But 1) America still exerts some kind a fascination over him, and 2) his views are very likely to change once he gets to know even one American. While political-minded bashers worldwide are a fortress of distorted facts, half-truths and downright lies, the average citizen just has impressions and misconceptions.

My simple (and maybe simplistic to some) theory is that as long as our two peoples will be estranged, those who have a vested interest to see us divided, whether to score political points in our own countries or to weaken our defenses, will have it easy. I don't want them to have it easy, so I come here and we debate.

[Atlantic Friend]

I concur.

Where nation-states are engaged in terrorism training or "sanctuarizing" terrorists' camps, military forces and a strong gunboat diplomacy are needed.

Where terrorism strikes us from within because they've entered our open, democratic societies, we use intelligence and law-enforcement officers to root them out.

Where terrorism recruits from impoverished populations, we need to offer the people there an alternative to crime, thus making them our first line of defense against terror.

And since the three conditions are usually fulfilled (except in homegrown terrorism that often recruits among the middle-class), we need the full set of cards.

We should have a businesslike approach. America has the greatest force projection capacity ? Then America is in charge of military operations. Europe hasn't the military power that the USA has ? Fine, then Europe takes the lead on the law-enforcement, intelligence or nation-building efforts. And most importantly, we coordinate our efforts.

I can't imagine how a terrorist group, even funded by a billionaire, could resist the combined efforts of a coalition of countries that have our financial or military resources.

[Atlantic Friend]

Yes, the Israeli lead a difficult fight in the face of heinous attacks. They indeed can be an example to us, because even in the middle of an unabated 60-year war, they still are a democracy and have not betrayed their ideals.

When I read the reactions to the Spanish elections, I really do think we all could show some restraint and look at what Israel has done from 1948 to the present. They hold elections at regular intervals, and accept the fact that the Likud can be voted out of office and replaced by a Labor government and vice-versa.

Should people yell at them they're just a bunch of chickens that betray the Western civilization whenever the Likud loses an election ? Certainly not. And so what right have we to hurl abuse at Spaniards and call them appeasers when they just exercise their right to vote ? Yes we would have wanted them to vote differently. But if a democratic country can now demand that another democratic country vote in a desired way, then we're not talking about democracies at all.

That's what bothers me with the "either you're with us 100% or you're 100% our enemy" argument. This kind of armed consensus makes everybody weaker, not stronger, because it focuses on our differences (like in Iraq), and says nothing about what we do right - and, more importantly, what we do right TOGETHER (like in Afghanistan, Haiti, like the smooth level of cooperation between our intelligence services, etc).

As I said in an earlier post, I don't have much sympathy for Richard Perle or even Donald Rumsfeld, given what they said about my country, my countrymen, and, by extension, about me. Having been told by them I was decadent and corrupt and lacked moral fiber because of my nationality, you'll understand I would not shed a tear if they were replaced.

But I'm not American, and so if they are fine by you, they are fine by me. And if a terrorist group threatened to plant bombs on America if these two people were not ousted out of office, Mr Perle and Mr Rumsfeld won't have a stauncher partisan than me. That's how morally corrupt I am.

[SauronOfMordor]

There are French officials you would gladly get rid of, like my President and Foreign Minister, because of their attitude toward your nation. There are US officials whose demotion would not sadden me all that much, like Mr Perle or even Mr Rumsfeld, because of their attitude toward my country. But Mr Perle and Mr Rumsfeld would not have a stauncher partisan than me if some punk terrorist demanded their resignation by threatening to bomb Washington. As far as I'm concerned, he who bombs Washington bombs Paris, he who shoots at an American shoots a Frenchman, he who wish terrorism upon others wishes it upon its own country.

As others have noted, there has been a lot of frustration among Americans over the lack of support from the French government, which may (unjustly) spill over into annoyance at France in general.

The documents unearthed in Iraq, showing many European and UN officials being in the pay of Sadaam, including France's former Interior Minister Charles Pasqua, and Chirac's close friend Patrick Maugein, may lead to further revelations and hopefully some house-cleaning

[SevenDaysInMay]

We fight this war as WAR or we'll submit to islamofascism, under penalty of law, Sharia.

most nations are at some level sanctuaries for cells and leadership at odds with Pax Americana. The UN is aiding in our Decline and prepared for our Fall. Paris may be better than NYC for UN ambassadors. (We must track their movements as canaries in the mines.)

Our front yards shall be the battle grounds because millions of islamists are on their way to join predeployed forces. Nukes set off here will have Chinese blueprints and mostly Iranian radioactivity. The islamo-plagues could be sourced from mo$t historical enemies.

After we fall, only Godless China can fight on for a time against islam's commanded world conquest.

Islam has been sleeping for 500 years. Their shame at losing southern Europe twice and now Iraq enrages the devout. Oil has greased their skids. A nuclear Pakistan, Iran, Arabia, and Egypt shall cause EUrope's and Africa's total submission in one generation.

We fail to read and UNDERSTAND their Koran and Haddith et al. at our own families' and Constitutional Republic's peril.

Islam's kind of cleaving, mass murder warfare is upon us and shall grow by the millions unless we kill our mortal enemies faster than they kill and intimidate us.

So islam's holy scriptures teach those will study them.

[philosofy123]

WOW, man, I did not know that I have a clone running around.

I couldm't have said it any better. If you are an anglo, how did you get to be so smart? I wager that you are not anglo!

[lainde]

What's your problem with Mr. Perle and Secretary Rumsfeld?