Portland Police Bureau recalls .45 caliber Glock weapons after incidents

Albany Democrat-Herald ^ | 16 March 2004 | AP

[45Auto]

Portland Police Chief Derrick Foxworth has ordered a recall of .45-caliber Glock Model 21 firearms, weapons carried by 230 Portland officers.

His order comes after two of the guns exploded in the hands of two separate officers during training this month. Neither of the officers was seriously injured.

"We don't want a reoccurrence of this happening again," Foxworth said. "It's the prudent thing to do."

The Portland Police Bureau at first thought the problem was caused by an ammunition malfunction. After the second explosion, the bureau's training division did further analysis and determined the explosions may have been caused by a defect in the weapon or a design problem.

Police will switch to 9 mm handguns. They are negotiating with officials at Georgia-based Glock to replace the .45-caliber weapons with 9 mm handguns at no cost.

Because the .45-caliber Glock is popular among law enforcement, the Portland police training officers sent a teletype to agencies nationwide. They heard back from several, including agencies in Florida and Texas, that had similar problems.

Other agencies, including the Los Angeles Police Department, and Multnomah and Clackamas counties sheriff's departments, reported no problems.

[El Gato]

Why go all the way down to 9mm? .40 S&W would seem a better choice.

[glock rocks]

Everyone knows that M1 Garands blow up, not Glocks .....................

What? no picture?

[glock rocks]

Why go all the way down to 9mm? .40 S&W would seem a better choice.

think Portland.

[El Gato]

I fired 49 out of 50 on that course. Must of been a bad round.

Or an Old Sar' Major. :)

[Tallguy]

Actually, the problem is statistically worse in the .40 cal S&W models. The only model yet to have a documented Kaboom failure is the 9 x 19 MM series.

The culprit is generally either reloaded ammo, or improper ammo leading to a casing failure. I have a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) and shoot it quite frequently with no problems -- but then I don't re-load. No compaints here.

Glock KaBoom Failures

[Tallguy]

an important addendum: there is some evidence that Glock had some metallurgical problems with some of the barrels. Details are sketchy, but it might account for the higher incidence of Kb failures in the .40 S&W line.

[The KG9 Kid]

I seem to recall a thread where you chided me for pushing the 'myth' that Glocks are prone to blowing up with some loads because of the inherent design flaw with the unsupported chamber.

Do I recall that correctly?

[B4Ranch]

I'll bet that it will come out that someone in the administration considers the .45 round to be "too deadly" to be used against civilians.

Kind of like the way the rest of the world is shutting down on the death sentence. After all Portland is an 'advanced' city and they don't want to be accused of anything the Europeans would be against.

[Rocky Mountain High]

I've had a Glock 21, .45 for about 10 years and a Springfield 1911 .45 for about a year. I prefer the Glock any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the Springfield. The G is lighter,just as accurate and holds more firepower.

Just a talking point.

[The KG9 Kid]

There is some merit to the idea that improperly-loaded cases with too high a SAAMI pressure, battered duty rounds with anviled projectiles, or weakened reused brass (most likely from fired Glock brass) was the cause of some of the blow-ups with service Glocks.

Of course, there's another school of thought that adds the idea that Glocks also don't scale safely because of the lock-up design.

If Glocks were as hardy as their champions claim, why doesn't Glock scale the same design up to the powerful .50 AE instead of making a decaffeinated '.45 ACP Lite' round in the Glock .45 cartridge to supplant the real .45 ACP?

If you know anyone who shoots full power 10mm loads in their Glock 20, please let me know before they take the lane next to me at the range.

[Mulder]

I wonder why they chose the Glock to start with?

Probably because they were lowest bidder, and not as the result of some exhaustive testing on various weapons.

As to their caliber choice, it seems like 9mm is taking a step backwards. Personally, I'd prefer .357SIG or .45 ACP.

[Mulder]

The best damned handgun ever made is the 1911A1.

Why the military ever went to the 9mm round is unknown to me. It's probably the result of some beancounter trying to save a few dollars, or some Congressman getting kickbacks.

9mm isn't necessarily a bad round, if you have jacketed hollowpoints and a moderately hot load. But since the military can't use JHP's, they are left with a marginal round.

There are much better rounds available. 357SIG is a great round, but I'd be reluctant to carry it in only FMJ since you don't get any expansion. .45ACP is proven in combat to be very effective, and I believe that you'll see less of a a degradation in using FMJ rounds only than you'll see in any other major caliber.

But it's going to be a hard sell to get the beancounters to abandon their 15-round Berettas for an 8-round Sig or 1911. Also, a lot of women shooters seem to have problems with the .45 ACP.

So that leaves the .40 S&W. It's bigger than the 9mm rounds, and you have a pretty wide range of bullet weights (from 135 to 180 grains, and probably wider), so the military could pick the best performering weight. Full size .40 S&W's can accomade 13 rounds, so you only 2 rounds while going from 9mm to .40.

Adpoting the .40 would be a big improvement over the 9mm.

[The KG9 Kid]

"... I wonder why they chose the Glock to start with?"

Afflicted by an acute case of 'Everyone else-itis'.

Same thing for the awful S&W 9mm autos that were popular before the Glock became populist.

[Tallguy]

Of course, there's another school of thought that adds the idea that Glocks also don't scale safely because of the lock-up design.

That theory is also consistent with the Glock Kb data. And if it is true then Glock has a bigger problem than they are probably willing to admit. The 'Metallurgy Theory' makes sense because recalling a few barrels here, and a few there, makes it 'look' like you corrected the problem when, in fact, you've really got a design problem.

[OldSmaj]

But it's going to be a hard sell to get the beancounters to abandon their 15-round Berettas for an 8-round Sig or 1911.

Yeah, I know.

I was just pulling some chains here, anyway.

I love the old boat anchor and I never had any trouble with it on a personal basis.

There are those that simply cannot handle it, for whatever reason.

The grip safety gets most females, since their smaller hand forces an improper hold in order to depress the safety. That has, however, been corrected in a slight redesign of the safety and other mods over the years, such as ambi safeties, slimmer grips, more sensitive triggers, all have contributed to a much better weapon.

I guess my biggest complaint is that we had so many of them and the bill was paid so long ago.

Why throw money down a hole?

Particularly for what is undoubtably the worst piece of crap they could have bought: the model 92.

A good evening to all; this "Ol Sar'Maj" needs his beauty sleep.

Gotta get up early, turkey season opened today and I have every intention of popping ol' Tom's ass in the morning.

[Mulder]

Particularly for what is undoubtably the worst piece of crap they could have bought: the model 92.

I've read stuff that stated the reason for that choice was so we could deploy missiles in Italy, by giving Beretta the contract for the standard military sidearm.

It seems like every agency or organization that does serious testing to determine which firearm will work best for them, either decides on a SIG or 1911. I'm sure there are exceptions, but when cost isn't an issue, it seems like those two models do quite well.

[archy]

This is bizarre, everyone knows .40s blow up, not .45s.

Everyone knows .40s blow up more often than .45s, in Glocks or otherwise. It'll be interesting to see if the new .45 GAP shorty case is an improvement or not.

[Mulder]

Everyone knows .40s blow up more often than .45s, in Glocks or otherwise

I've read that too, but it seems like most of those events involved reloads, which wound up with excessive pressures due to repeatedly chambering the same round.

BTW, I'd be interested in your thoughts on what cartridge you'd like to see replace the 9X19mm for the military?

I think just about anything would be an improvement, especially since they are limited to FMJ rounds, but each of the other calibers have their own advantages and disadvantages as well.

[archy]

Why the military ever went to the 9mm round is unknown to me. It's probably the result of some beancounter trying to save a few dollars, or some Congressman getting kickbacks.

Sort of. There was a negotiation over the sale of American F16s to Italy ongoing at the time the JSSAP examination of the Beretta P92 was ordered, with heavy thumb pressure on the scales to test the weapon under conditions in which it would do well.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure....< /sarcasm >