Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 7 Mar 2004

FOX NEWS SUNDAY (Fox Network): > L. Paul Bremer, U.S. administrator in Iraq, and Bush campaign chairman Marc Racicot.

FACE THE NATION (CBS): Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla.; Govs. Bill Richardson, D-N.M., and Ed Rendell, D-Pa.

THIS WEEK (ABC): Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.; Matthew Dowd, campaign strategist for President Bush; Tad Devine, senior adviser to Democratic candidate John Kerry.

LATE EDITION (CNN) : L. Paul Bremer, U.S. administrator in Iraq; Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, and Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.; retired Gen. Wesley Clark, former Democratic presidential candidate.

Thanks for your service son. Keep your head down. You are correct about watching the news shows with the 24/7 Bush bashing and belittlement. Every time the RATmedia is on I want to shoot the damn tv ala Elvis.

My eldest just started Nuclear Engineering training in the Navy and I met a bunch of his buddies last month. Great guys and I makes me feel good to know that we have such fantastic people protecting us as you and them.

Thank your mom and dad for raising such a fine son as you. America thanks them and you though one would not think so from the RATmedia reports.

Allen

There is a good discussion of it in Fletcher Prouty's book JFK. He was liason between CIA and Joints Chiefs and a briefer for JFK. This was a National Security Memoradum which reversed the slow buildup going on in Vietnam and was immediately voided when Johnson took over.

It is false that Kennedy encouraged the killing of the Diem brothers. Part of the problem was that the Intelligence operatives in this arena were not under any higher control than themselves and often acted without authorization. And much was hidden from the President.

Fletcher Prouty's endorsement of the existence of Vietnam troop de-escalation order Kennedy planned to sign is as reliable as Prouty's endorsement of "one of the craziest Kennedy assassination theories: The Umbrella Man in Dealey Plaza shooting a poison dart at JFK."

In the absence of the draw-down order (destroyed by an evil President Johnson)there is only the word of Prouty, who is "utterly unreliable about facts," to sustain the thesis of President Kennedy's intention to withdraw from Vietnam.

About the Diem murder, there is too much documented evidence as well as eyewitness accounts of President Kennedy's being directly involved to ignore in favor of the "will no one rid me of this pestilent priest" cop=out.

I hope that I do not regret responding to your post.

Why would you regret responding to my post? Certainly there is nothing to fear from me.

Prouty is not the only one to mention this intention of JFK, Arthur Schelessinger says the same thing as do others within that administration (you could claim they are liars I suppose but I am taking them at face value in the absence of persuasive contrary evidence.) He also prints the National Security Memorandum which, if implemented, would have begun the de-escalation in Vietnam and the one released immediately after Kennedy's death which reversed the intention.

I recall the Prouty maintains that there were two teams of gunmen involved in the killing and do not recall his comments regarding the Umbrella Man. Most of his discussion of that event involved the actual order to stand down given a military unit formed for presidential protection duties as well as the incredible failures of the protection detail which was "on the job." Given the numerous threats against JFK those failures are particularly appalling and suspicious.

While there is not much doubt that Kennedy wanted Diem removed from power in S. Vietnam there is plenty of evidence which indicates his dismay at the actual murders. Arguments pro and con are inconclusive but I feel that he did not approve of a murder. If it took place as you maintain that would explain some of his dismay- for not stopping it when he could. But there is also not much doubt that the CIA was operating without much presidential control during that era both in Vietnam and in Cuba. Nor is there much doubt that it was not revealing to the president all its activities even activities it had been forbidden to do.

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