Haitians taking justice into own hands

AP ^ | Mar 5, 2004

[george wythe]

It took an armed posse five days to track down Ti Roro. Once they did, Roro was beaten with sticks, taken to the morgue to identify his alleged victims, ringed with gasoline-soaked tires and burned alive.

With no police, no courts and no law, communities are taking justice into their own hands, hunting down former militants of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide who they say made their lives a living hell.

"It took him more than an hour to die, but as he was burning, he admitted to all of the 15 people he killed in the last year," said Joubert Muraille, 41, who witnessed Wednesday's killing but said he did not participate. "He deserved it 1,000 times."

This small colonial city 40 miles west of the capital has been bitterly divided since Aristide won his second election victory in 2000 and pro-government militias began terrorizing opposition members.

The climate changed quickly, though, when Aristide fled Sunday. Police vanished, government officials fled, court offices bolted shut and pro-Aristide militias went on the run from armed posses stepping in as ragtag sheriffs.

The posses are responsible only for rounding up the Aristide militants. They say they don't kill anyone.

That's left to the mercy of the population.

Roland Lysias said it was Ti Roro who killed his 21-year-old son, Junior, two months ago because he had been a known member of an opposition group. He said Roro cut off his son's feet, severed his hands, gouged out his eyeballs and set him ablaze.

Lysias said he didn't take part in Roro's killing, but asked the community for justice.

"We had to treat evil with evil," said Lysias, 72, his face withered, hands shaking. "If there was another way to bring about justice, I would accept that. But right now there is no other way. This is the only justice we can find right now."

Witnesses to the killing said the crowd cheered as Roro was set afire. After he was dead, family members of alleged victims threw rocks at his charred corpse. The town's residents quickly buried the body across the street from the hospital, next to a heap of foul trash.

[r9etb]

What a sh*thole.

[george wythe]

For some reason, I'm remembering "The Godfather."

Bonasera: (seated in front of the Don's desk, facing the camera)

I believe in America. America has made my fortune. And I raised my daughter in the American fashion. I gave her freedom, but -- I taught her never to dishonor her family. She found a boyfriend; not an Italian. She went to the movies with him; she stayed out late. I didn't protest. Two months ago, he took her for a drive, with another boyfriend. They made her drink whiskey. And then they tried to take advantage of her. She resisted. She kept her honor. So they beat her, like an animal. When I went to the hospital, her nose was a'broken. Her jaw was a'shattered, held together by wire. She couldn't even weep because of the pain. But I wept. Why did I weep? She was the light of my life -- beautiful girl. Now she will never be beautiful again.

[Bonasera breaks down. The Don gestures to Sonny to give Bonasera a drink]

Sorry...

[Bonasera, taking the drink, sips from the shot glass]

I -- I went to the police, like a good American. These two boys were brought to trial. The judge sentenced them to three years in prison -- suspended sentence. Suspended sentence! They went free that very day! I stood in the courtroom like a fool. And those two bastard, they smiled at me. Then I said to my wife, "for justice, we must go to Don Corleone."

[68skylark]

Yeah -- exactly. The more I learn about other countries, the more I'm glad to be American.

[wtc911]

Two words....Robert Byrd.

And he didn't kill anybody. There are savages everywhere.

[glowworm]

Justice is long recognised as "An eye for an eye....", but tempered by mercy. A "deal" is struck to handle "justice" through a function of government. Where the goverment fails to do justice.., I feel ppl are free to handle it themselves when justice is so corrupted.. Civil disobediance is the only recourse left...IMHO.

[george wythe]

I sympathize with the 72-year-old gentlemen whose son was brutally murdered.

He also said that he would prefer a better system of justice, instead of vigilantism.

I hope that Haitians can break the cycle of violence and stop repeating their bloody history. Really sad.

[Gunslingr3]

story from an aquaintance:

Sorry in advance if this non-politically correct diatribe of mine offends anyone who spends their whole life reading the paper and never gets around.

I spent much time in Haiti, was one of the primary planners of election security for their first free election in 300 years, served on Aristede's personal body guard detail (He's a weird dude with a lot of Michael Jackson like tastes if you catch my drift) and basically played sherrif, cop, local town selectman, and general HMFIC for all of Central Haiti up to Kenscoff and Petionville. (blah blah blah All in a typical year's work for an SF guy.) All the time we were working for the UN (which bascially guarantees a clusterf*ck that nothing of long term substance would get accomplished.)

Here's a clue about Haiti for those of you who have never been there. It's a sh*thole of the lowest order. Having spent 25 years working around the world in mostly sh*tholes, Haiti by far takes the cake as one of the worst places on earth to live.

What's worse is that the people of Haiti, having suffered under 300 years of despotic rule and harsh oppression and intimdation basically can't get out of their own way. Most have any hint of initiative beaten out their gene pool centuries ago. Many will maybe stick their neck out to do something for a family member, most will not stick their neck out for their own village let alone their nation. This allows a very violent minority of thugs who normally work for the ruling elite (but the other side (lavalas) has some too) to intimidate and control vast amounts of the population that basically get herded along like cattle. It's wide the thought of some of these guys coming into PAP is enough to cause hundreds of half hearted cops, equally armed as the rebels, to evaporate at a moments notice. You do this "control" through the most brutal methods, like the famous "necklacing" (seen it), machete (seen it), beatings (seen it) or good old fashion shootings (seen it). Even voodoo, witch doctors and zombies play their own role in control.

The country is an environmnetal disaster. Literaly you can see the exact border between Haiti and Dom Rep becasue there are almost no trees in Haiti, it's been clear cut to make charcoal which is what most people do to make a few bucks. There are almost no animals in Haiti, save numerous packs of feral dogs, and when you see a bird in Haiti you actually stop and go, "hey look it's a bird". Likewise there are virtually no old people. When you see one you go "wow look it's an old person".

That country requires GENERATIONS of work to change, not years. Having spent so much time there I believe what prbabbly happened The rebels were coming to get Aristede, who would not have survived very many more days. His own personal security detail would have informed him of this. A call from the state Department advising him that if he wanted to live he should leave and that the US would guarantee his safety, since from his Palace to the Airport it's a little bit of a ride and the airport is on the northern outskirts of the city close to the area where the rebels were coming down from. So bascailly a heavily armed security detail either an SF team or a platoon of Marines or whoever it was would be required to get him safely out of the country.

Now those guys job is to go get him, and bring him to the airport and make sure he gets out safe. Not kiss his ass, or negotiate with him as to how many sofas they're going to carry out or how many little boys to bring with him, just get out him and his family.

The guys are going to be armed to the teeth and carry themselves with a demeanor that ensures any Haitaians who are even thinking of interfering will be killed. See that's how you control Haitains. In most countries being heavy handed normally ensures you just made a whole bunch of people that will do whatever they can to get back at you. In Haiti, not being heavy handed is a sign of weakness to the mob, which emboldens them to further action. What Haitian mobs are good at is sensing if their opponents are weak, lack resolve or unable to hurt them. If so they go into a feeding Frenzy. But wade into a mob of angry Haitians and grab the leader by the throat and drag him out maybe with a beating to go with it, and they become very docile. So these guys escorting Aristede out to the Airport would have known this and been all about business and carried themselves in a way to deter, in a moment, any attempt to get Aristeded. Because another thing about Haiti and mobs, you are always vastly outnumbered and could probably go through your entire basically load and not kill them all, so if you go down you are in big trouble.

Some of these remarks some congressmen are making no doubt unaware of the reality of the situation on the ground firmly with their head up their ass and no doubt a political agenda to make are scratching their heads wondering why a couple guys in suits couldn't just whisk the president out maybe in a nice smiling and waving farewell parade. Now I suppose after Aristeded got to CAR, had a chance to change his shorts, ensure the millions in his swiss bank accounts are still there, and thank his lucky stars could easily have gotten up the gumption to interpret all this as being kidnapped in stead of saving his ass. But then again he IS a politician.

All this current "chapter" will accomplish will be to lance the boil for a few years until the puss builds up again. To really fix that country requires more money, effort and time than any nation or even the world community working together has the iinclination to give, no matter what bs they spout in the papers.


Any smart Haitian would have long ago been on the first inner tube out of there...

Los

[george wythe]

The country is an environmnetal disaster. Literaly you can see the exact border between Haiti and Dom Rep becasue there are almost no trees in Haiti, it's been clear cut to make charcoal which is what most people do to make a few bucks. There are almost no animals in Haiti, save numerous packs of feral dogs, and when you see a bird in Haiti you actually stop and go, "hey look it's a bird". Likewise there are virtually no old people. When you see one you go "wow look it's an old person".

Unfortunately, it's true.

[68skylark]

Actually, that write-up is less politically incorrect than I expected. The writer seems to attribute the f***ed up situation in Haiti to some national trauma over the last few hundred years. I'm afraid I'd attribute it more to cultural norms that go back much more than a few hundred years.

[FITZ]

I'm afraid I'd attribute it more to cultural norms that go back much more than a few hundred years.

I saw that there was a reference to a "colonial" city --- it always matters what country did the colonization, it seems that former British colonies --- like us and Canada and some others do okay.

[Gunslingr3]

Hey, my mom had a '64 Skylark - red, convertible. God what a boat...

[archy]

You pretty much called it. Concur.

[DuncanWaring]

I feel ppl are free to handle it themselves when justice is so corrupted..

"...to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

They are not "taking the law into their own hands", they are taking the law back into their hands.

[68skylark]

I like your theory, but I'm afraid that countries like Zimbabwe go against the example.

In the past, all the problems in every sh**-hole country in the world got blamed on "colonialism." But a few years ago I stopped believing it. Countries have had enough time since the end of "colonialism" to show the world if they can run their own countries any better. In most cases, the locals seem to run their countries much worse. So in hindsight, those evil colonists really don't look so bad.

[FITZ]

There are exceptions --- but even Zimbabwe was ahead of many areas of Africa until some recent changes --- which did more to undo what had been done in colonialism. I think you can compare almost all former British colonies --- the USA, Canada, Australia, and even India, Hong Kong with former colonies of Spain and other countries and see there is a big difference. Compare Barbados and Jamaica with Hait ---- Barbados doesn't seem like too bad a place and they kept a lot of their British customs and culture.

[livius]

Interesting post!

[cyborg]

Not really it was the French that used Haiti as a slave outpost and a dumping ground. That's a tragedy.

[cyborg]

very good summary...I'll add having voodoo as a national religion being a downer too.

[cyborg]

You're right and it also depends on how independence was achieved, were the locals educated? Was it a gradual process? Or was it violent overthrow?