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Why Isn't There a Conservative Answer to MoveOn.org?
03-05-2004 | Americathy

Posted on 03/05/2004 5:40:02 AM PST by Americathy

I'm new to Free Republic, and I kind of see it as an activist haven for conservatives. But I only heard about it by way of an e-mail link, though once I think I heard Ann Coulter mention it on Hannity & Colmes. I'm sure there are other activist organizations out there, but I have to wonder if conservatives have anything like MoveOn.org. My guess is, no - at least nothing that is visible, or has the backing of huge money from people like George Soros, who I think is a very scary power player. Everyone knows that the Democrats can rely on MoveOn to be its mouthpiece, which means they have a way to get around campaign laws.

I saw an article linked on this site, by Mona Charon, that advises Bush to take the gloves off. If we had a MoveOn.org of our own, with the money to produce commercials, perhaps we could put those gloves on for ourselves. I would love to see some very damaging commercials about John Kerry's post-war record and his voting record. He is a traitor to this country, but all I hear from Republicans is how much respect his service to our country. I would respect it to if he hadn't come back as a traitor. I would love to see some Vietnam Vets step up to the plate on primetime.

Hillary is another problem. We need to crush her. I didn't hear a thing about Hillary's pro-Saddam comments this week until I saw a thread on this site, the article by Oliver North. I would love to see some commercials made by our own activist group that denounces her viciously. Put these rotten people's records in primetime. We must expose them and hit them with both barrels!

If there is an conservative organization that is comparable to MoveOn.org, please let me know, and I'll join up. After that I'll be asking, "Why haven't I heard of you? Is it me? And if you are out there, where are the commercials, the ads, the visibility? Do you have a big power player, an answer to Soros?"

Just some thoughts, and I would interested to hear what everybody thinks.

-Cat


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: conservatives; moveon; repeatposter; retread
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To: Defendingliberty; diotima; Bob J
Did you ever think that many of these groups are wasting their money....?

Gay marriages being performed, hate speech laws enacted, pro-homosexual education put into place in schools for children as young as kindergarten inculding fisting and golden showers, education so dumbed down that companies go to third world countries to hire engineering/tech employees, pledge of alligiance declared unconstitutional, leaked intellignece memos where the leaker not the wrong doers are prosecuted, one-man black-robed Nazis making and overturning state and federal laws through "interpretation", elected officials thumbing their noses at law without fear of consequence, police afraid to go after criminals, citizens literally changing their lives so they won't be sued, McDonald's, one of the world's largest corporations changing its menu to void presecution for people becoming fat, Boy Scouts of American labeled a "Hate Group"...

No, I never considered that extreme left-wing activists are wasting their money...

141 posted on 03/06/2004 11:15:13 AM PST by Libertina
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To: Libertina; All
One of the big issues about why there is no conservative MoveOn.org is that almost all of their activities are illegal and violate FEC rules.

Conservatives aren't going to go there. I know the FRN won't. The fact is their Bushbashing commericials are going to be stopped and their PAC is fronting for candidates taking donations FOR POLITICAL CANDIDATES DIRECTLY, which is also a no-no. So moveon.org is successful, to some extent, because they are breaking the law and (we)the right is not.
142 posted on 03/06/2004 11:19:29 AM PST by diotima (Free the Miranda Memos!)
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Also the left is aided and abetted by the mainstream media that constantly down play conservative success and constantly emphasizes the victories of the fringe left.

For all their talk about Big Business, Big Oil, Big Tobacco, the media should really be focusing on Big Ketchup. Bush has raised record sums of money according the hard money restrictions and the only way to level the playing field for the left is to engage in illegal activities that are funded by Mrs. Ketchup and Soros.

The media will never mention that of course.
143 posted on 03/06/2004 11:24:36 AM PST by diotima (Free the Miranda Memos!)
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To: Americathy
Try this site. I get a lot of good stuff from here, but it a bit edgy. I love it!!

http://hq.protestwarrior.com
144 posted on 03/06/2004 11:29:46 AM PST by GottaLuvAkitas1
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To: Americathy
Welcome to FR! And you've asked a great question. I, too, would like some advertising to counter the incessant liberal media spin.

First, a lot of people do listen and make decisions based on advertising.

Second, as you point out, the media doesn't really cover the stories portray the Dems in a negative light. For example, I spoke with my dad (68) a couple of weeks ago--he had no idea that John Kerry was an anti-Vietnam war activist in the 70's.

And Americans have such a tendency to become complacent--that, given with the fact that domestic success in the WOT is determined by what doesn't happen--that means we need to remind people that 9/11 is Bill Clinton's legacy, and voting in John Kerry would, in essence, mean that the deaths (and injuries) of the members of our brave military in Afghanistan and Iraq were in vain, because Kerry would roll back the WOT before it's won and we'd be right back where we started.
145 posted on 03/06/2004 11:45:55 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: diotima
Sorry Dio, I think you have missed my point.

I'm not discussing the the legal status of such groups- which sometimes clearly go over the line. I am addressing the funding issue.

My point is that they are making headway because they have funding to do so much work. (As well as free media complicity.)

You and Bob are making headway, but with volunteer hours. No pay. These liberal organizations are well funded and have staff members to keep working. That is not to say we can't move ahead, I am trying to make that point that wealthy conseratives need to begin directing their dollars at something other than the Opera or we move ahead at a much slower rate.

Will it be fast enough?
146 posted on 03/06/2004 12:10:42 PM PST by Libertina
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To: Libertina
The next question is, how do we get the conservative rich to get as involved as the conservative poor. I would think Forbes is the man to be talking to about all this. He could not only start it, he could direct it.

A friend of mine reminded me just this morning that the GOP already has tons of money, much more than MoveOn.org. That's true. But much of that money goes to the campaign and its workers, not expensive ads that keep reminding people of the truth. TV, radio, billboards, etc.
147 posted on 03/06/2004 12:46:50 PM PST by Americathy
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To: proud American in Canada
I talk to a lot of older people who think John Kerry is the country's answer to Rambo! I asked my mother's friend (66 I think) what she thought about the Vietnam war protests, and she said, "You mean all those hippies? My, that was a terrible bunch!" I then said, "You know Kerry was a part of that terrible bunch, don't you!" That got her thinking, I'll bet. We also talked about social security. Her whole mind set was "Bush wants to take away our social security and put me out on the street." I had a very difficult time trying to make her see that this was a lie. It is these type of people, basically easy marks for the Democrat spinmeisters, that we need to reach with the truth, and with a goal of alleviating their worries, the primary tool of the Dems.
148 posted on 03/06/2004 12:55:20 PM PST by Americathy
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To: Americathy
A very good question, Cathy.
149 posted on 03/06/2004 1:04:29 PM PST by Libertina
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To: Libertina
I'm sending a letter to Forbes!
150 posted on 03/06/2004 1:26:01 PM PST by Americathy
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To: Libertina
Wealthy conservatives give plenty of money. They just don't give it in ways that you can see. Let me explain.

The conservative, non-profit/issue oriented/DC industry is made up of many well known organizations, we all know who they are here on FR. These organizations follow a fairly similar business model. They put out papers, they lobby congress, they publish studies, they speak on issues on the news (fox, of course). They don't really have grassroots. Grassroots is fairly new trend in the conservative movement. (The exception here is the "religious right" like Focus on the Family. They have a fairly large group of people who lobby on their religious/conservative issues.) But back to the conservative trend......

Since the Clinton fiasco, the grassroots is gaining some power in conservative DC circles. However, there are certain restrictions that most grassroots operations will face. And this pertains to my previous post on MoveOn.org's illegal activities.

An organization that is a non-profit C-3 or C-4, has very strict regulations. The C-3 organizations, tax-deductable, are more restricted than C-4, but still these organizations can not engage in (or be shown to have financially supported) forbidden activities. MoveOn.org does it, but they are breaking the law. And their 527 is about to get castrated as well. So any organization that is a C3 or C4 cannot be responsible for certain kinds of grassroots activities. Period. Not to mention, that while C4's have a wider scope of action than a C3, C4 contributions are not tax deductible. Almost no wealthy conservative donor is going to give a chunk of seed money if they can't write it off. This is one of the biggest obstacles.

So, there are wealthy conservatives who support Heritage, MRC, ACU, ATR and so on. But those organizations are legally prohibited from having active grassroots lobby for candidates, and if they are a C3 they shouldn't be getting involved in legislation either. If they do have active grassroots lobby for candidates, they are restricted by hard money rules (the FEC rather than the IRS) that make wealthy donors irrelevant. Again, I say MoveOn is successful and visible because they are breaking the law.

There are certain areas where grassroots can be effective that do not fall under the electioneering category. The biggest obstacle here, is that mentality inside the Beltway is...inside the beltway. The prevailing view is that DC is the most important place in the world. In reality, who cares about DC? The rest of the country is where the action needs to take place. This idea is somewhat foreign to those inside the beltway.
151 posted on 03/06/2004 1:27:33 PM PST by diotima (Free the Miranda Memos!)
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To: Americathy
Scaife is the man and they only give money to 501c3s. C3s are restricted from most political involvement.
152 posted on 03/06/2004 1:29:15 PM PST by diotima (Free the Miranda Memos!)
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To: Americathy
I'm sure it has been mentioned in this thread (haven't read the whole thing), but Free Republic Network (FRN) is, to my mind, the obvious choice for a counter to moveon.org. FRN is a separate group and doesn't share "ownership" with FR........but its members / chapters can be capable of some pretty remarkable things. Now, all we need is a billionaire benefactor to counter Soros. Given the proper funding, no doubt in my mind moveon.org could be made to be seen as the amateurs they are.......with an empty "message".
153 posted on 03/06/2004 1:33:13 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: RightOnline
Stu, the biggest problem is that donations to FRN are not tax deductable. So large chunks of cash aren't coming our way because most foundations that donate, require that tax deduction in order to give you large amounts cash.

Also as a c4 we can't do the things that Moveon does (they are violating IRS rules in doing them) and we try very hard not to cross the line.

That isn't to say a c3 isn't in the works...:^)
154 posted on 03/06/2004 1:37:20 PM PST by diotima (Free the Miranda Memos!)
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To: diotima
Great information. Any recommendations for reading so that I can understand this better?
155 posted on 03/06/2004 1:39:03 PM PST by Americathy
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To: Americathy
JR is smarter and alot better looking than Soros. 2 out of 3 is not bad.
156 posted on 03/06/2004 1:43:35 PM PST by Big Horn (A waist is a terrible thing to mind.)
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To: Americathy
Unfortunately, the best stuff to read is from the IRS. :(

They lay out the non-profit restrictions.

Once a group gets involved in a campaign, either by saying vote for X or don't vote for Y, they fall under the FEC rules. The FEC rules are extrodinarily tight and rigorous. (I chuckle when I think of people who say big business fund the Bush campaign, when hard money donations are strictly limited and enforced, there is not such thing as millionaire hard money donations.)

I would read the recent pieces on the crack down and impending smack down of 527's on account of MoveOn's blatant violations. Also take a look at the FEC website to see what they regulate. If I come across anything else I will forward to you. Most of what we have learned at FRN has come from our conversations with our Attorney, CHA-CHING!
157 posted on 03/06/2004 1:57:50 PM PST by diotima (Free the Miranda Memos!)
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To: TommyDale
"Why Isn't There a Conservative Answer to MoveOn.com"? Because we only talk to ourselves.
158 posted on 03/06/2004 1:58:27 PM PST by estpeter (I HATE taglines.)
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To: Coop
Coop, you typed a redundancy. Please make a concerted effort to conserve valuable bandwith in the future.
159 posted on 03/06/2004 2:04:30 PM PST by IGOTMINE (We are being incrementally criminalized by a government that does not trust us with firearms.)
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To: diotima
I chuckle when I think of people who say big business fund the Bush campaign, when hard money donations are strictly limited and enforced, there is not such thing as millionaire hard money donations.

I guess I know this is true from other things I have read. What irritates me about news people is they rarely challenge people who make statements like this. I may be mistaken but I believe the GOP donation average is much lower than the Democrat's, because much of GOP donations are like mine, whatever I can spare after my crummy salary covers the bills, $10 here, $25 there. Then some idiot gets on TV and starts talking about the big money donations to the GOP and rarely do I hear a challenge!!! Gibson on Fox often does, but so many don't. Really drives me crazy.
160 posted on 03/06/2004 2:12:09 PM PST by Americathy
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