JOHN KERRY VOTED FOR KENNEDY's ban on ALL CENTERFIRE AMMO (63-34 defeated) - Yeas and nays

Thomas ^ | 3-2-03 | Ted Kennedy

[Dan from Michigan]

TEXT OF AMMO BILL

YEAs ---34
Akaka (D-HI) Bayh (D-IN) Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA) Byrd (D-WV) Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE) Chafee (R-RI) Clinton (D-NY)
Corzine (D-NJ) Dayton (D-MN) Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (D-FL) Harkin (D-IA) Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI) Kennedy (D-MA) Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-FL)
Reed (D-RI) Rockefeller (D-WV) Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY) Stabenow (D-MI) Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---63
Alexander (R-TN) Allard (R-CO) Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT) Bennett (R-UT) Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO) Breaux (D-LA) Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY) Burns (R-MT) Campbell (R-CO)
Chambliss (R-GA) Cochran (R-MS) Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID) Crapo (R-ID) Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH) Dole (R-NC) Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH) Hagel (R-NE) Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX) Inhofe (R-OK) Jeffords (I-VT)
Kyl (R-AZ) Landrieu (D-LA) Leahy (D-VT)
Lincoln (D-AR) Lott (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ) McConnell (R-KY) Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK) Nelson (D-NE) Nickles (R-OK)
Pryor (D-AR) Reid (D-NV) Roberts (R-KS)
Santorum (R-PA) Sessions (R-AL) Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK) Sununu (R-NH) Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA)

Not Voting - 3
Domenici (R-NM) Edwards (D-NC) Johnson (D-SD)

[Travis McGee]

I wish I had an answer.

[Travis McGee]

Don't make me jealous. You won't find rifles like that in Kali, ever.

[Atlas Sneezed]

A chamber designed for 7.62X51 will handle a .308 fine. The converse is not true. My .308 bolt guns require real .308 made by Federal or Winchester. A 7.62X51 will not settle into the chamber.

---

Factory rifles do not normally have this problem. If you have some custom tuned rifles, they may be limited to certain narrow range of cartridge lengths. Your slam fire problem may be for different reasons.
Here is a widely-cited article on the arcane subject you may find interesting: http://www.fulton-armory.com/308.htm

[Myrddin]

A Remington 700PSS is a factory rifle except for having Vias tune the trigger. I'm not putting any more 7.62X51 NATO in THAT rifle. If/When I purchase an M1A in .308, I'll give that stock of ammo another chance.

[TigersEye]

I wish I had an answer.

Well you posed an excellent question.

Let's hope the right people see that it's been asked.

This is a great book, people. It will snatch complacency right out from under you.

[Myrddin]

Don't make me jealous. You won't find rifles like that in Kali, ever.

I'll bet you would have drooled over the closed-bolt Intertec in .45ACP as well. It has a 40 round mag. How about a DRUM fed AK-47 variant? The drum holds 100 rounds. A SAR-3 new in the box. A couple FN-FAL with hi-cap mags. Cash and carry. There is a guy in town with a belt-fed .50 cal mounted "Rat Patrol" style on his truck.

There's really no reason to be jealous. I have to drive almost 10 minutes to get to the closest BLM land to hunt deer, elk, moose, etc.

Fair warning: not everyone is tickled with Pocatello. Check out Pathetic Pocatello. The locals are trying to shame the city council into making the place into a business and people friendly city.

[Mr. Mojo]

Cool! Makes me love my Winchester even more. Up yours, commies!

Model 94 .30 - 30 bump!

[Dead Dog]

Which gets to the stupidity of this attempted law.

If they outlaw .223, they don't outlaw 5.56 Nato and visa versa

If they outlaw 7.62X51, they don't outlaw .308 Winchester.
Outlawing the .30X30 is mind boggling.

[appalachian_dweller]

These gun grabbing pukes must really have some messed up plans for what's left of this country to want us disarmed so badly.

Think I'll make another stop by the military surplus shop on the way home today.

[stevio]

Good find Dan, you're a credit to FR. Kerry, what a b****.

[Ancesthntr]

no, J F'n K flew in to help shitcan tort reform on gun manufacturers.

I think that this was actually a pretty big victory for gun owners (though, as in every battlefield victory, there are casualities). Why?

It is interesting to note that only 8 traitors voted for the final bill. More interesting is who among the other traitors in the Senate did NOT vote for it: Feinstein, Schumer and Kerry. Gee, let's see: the authors of the AWB amendment to this bill, which was attached to the legislation, still didn't vote for it. Neither did the obvious Presidential candidate for the Thundering Herd of Jackasses, despite having voted for not only the AWB provision, but also McStain's gun-show-killing amendment. If these people had REALLY wanted these provisions in the law, they and their fellow travelers would have voted for it. The fact that they didn't says that they attached all of these amendments for one reason - to kill the underlying legislation. They want to kill the firearms industry, by hook or by crook, so desperately that they are willing to even sacrifice a gun ban for it. This says to me that they must think that they are losing, that this one tactic (death by lawsuit) is the only one that will allow them to win. That analysis makes me feel very much better than I felt yesterday morning, after the AWB and the gunshow provisions got attached. Now it not only appears that the AWB is on the way out, but the antis have revealed their true feelings - that they are scared.

Make no mistake - the AWB IS on the way out. If the NRA and other gun groups (including lots of groups of 1, like all of us that called our reps multiple times) could sacrifice a great pro-gun bill to stop the AWB renewal, then a stand-alone AWB isn't going to pass. There won't be any more pro-gun legislation to attach a renewal to, so it will die (of course, we can always be back-stabbed - yet again - so we must ALL be vigilant).

The antis, especially Fat Ted (Drunken Murderer, MA), have revealed themselves to the whole (gun-owning) world for who they are. Those of our fellow gun owners who are not so politically astute (or who just didn't give a damn about ugly rifles), will now be able to be bludgeoned by the rest of us with the club of (at least) Kennedy's centerfire rifle ban. Any shotgunner you see at a gunshow who sneers as he passes the table full of AR-15 clones can now be told that the same folks who hate ugly rifles wanted him to stay home and not be able to look at $2,000+ double-barreled English dove guns. The real RINOs on the gun issue have also been smoked out - geez, Richard Lugar!! Gregg Judd!! These guys shouldn't be taking another oath of office.

Regarding the failure of the underlying bill: Look, I don't like these absurd suits any more than anyone else. I, like every other gun owner, pay more for guns and ammo because of the potential for (or reality of) baseless lawsuits. The judges are clearly NOT doing their jobs. But there have been no awards that have stuck on appeal. There will be none, because the moment a gun manufacturer is found liable for the criminal actions of someone not under their control, 10,000 lawyers are going to sue GM, Ford and every other car company for selling cars to drunk drivers. It won't - it CAN'T - happen, because if it does the economy goes down the crapper as commerce grinds to a halt. Thus, until a clean liability law IS passed (how about next year, after another 2-4 Senate Dems get promotions to the private sector), the only real cost will be the litigation cost. That's not nothing, and I certainly am not attempting to minimize it, but it is bearable for another year or so.

The real victory is this: if no more gun-related legislation gets passed this year, as now seems fairly likely, then that is great for gun owners. You see, for the first time in history a federal law restricting the rights of gun owners will have been taken off of the books. When, after another year or two, it is shown that there hasn't been a militia uprising, the murder of 10,000 cops or little kids or some such nonsense, then the overblown scaremongering tactics of the antis will be apparent to all (or at least those on the fence, who are the only ones that really matter, politically). This will greatly discredit the antis, and make it far more difficult for them to pass new legislation in the future. Being able to buy magazines for reasonable prices will be nice also. The added bucks in everyone's gun budget will mean more to spend on time at the range, honing those skills that seem to require Feinswine to regularly buy new underwear. :>)

[Ancesthntr]

...Kennedy's centerfire rifle ban...

Correction: ...Kennedy's centerfire rifle AMMO ban...

[glock rocks]

Excellent analysis! Thank you.

We're probably reasonably safe from new firearms legislation at least until November. With a few rino's and D's voted out, perhaps we can wind back the clock. One unconstitutional infringement down, 20,000+ to go.

[hotshot]

It makes me sick that my home State of Delaware, one of the original colonies, has two liberal cowardly despicable commies for their senators-Biden and Carper. Both of them would vote for check points, national id's and disarming everyone. But the same sicko's that loved Clinton and carried Delaware twice for Clinton keep pinko Biden and wimpy Carper in office.

[Travis McGee]

Thanks! I appreciate it.

[Travis McGee]

I'm just too much of a warm weather wimp to brave Idaho.

[Myrddin]

I'm just too much of a warm weather wimp to brave Idaho.

I dislike humidity with a passion. Pocatello is DRY. The only time I manage to perspire to any extent is when I've spent 3 hours pushing my lawn mower and the outside temp in over 95 degrees. Most of the winter is cold and dry. A light jacket is fine even at 15 degrees. Below that temp, I get out the knit cap, gloves and a more significant jacket. Summer nights are 80 degrees with daytime temps running 90 to 106. September/October are indistinguishable from typical San Diego weather...sans humidity. The only annoying weather characteristic is WIND. We are right in the typical path of the jetstream. A steady 20 to 35 knot wind with gusts to 60 is not unusual. Try to get your target to hold still on the 100 yard range in that kind of wind. Yikes.

[Travis McGee]

Maybe some day I'll get an RV and be a land nomad. Who knows. But I think I'm more suited to FL or TX.

[risk]

As much as anything, it's a battle over definitions.

All the current national debates are such now. A day of strikes like 9/11 taxed the American need to have easy definitions. Marriage is a simple matter of redefining a term within the framework of "civil rights." The second amendment is easy to reframe in the context of urban "sensibilities."

These affected "Tory post modernists" of our time should know what sort of damage they are doing. A sound tarring and feathering might help them to see things in a more conventional manner?

Macarony Making (designating an affected Englishman)

[Ancesthntr]

How do you think I feel - I grew up in New Jersey, which has turned into the PRNJ. Thankfully, I had an opportunity to escape, and came to Texas, Free America. NJ used to be solidly Republican - until all of the jackasses from NYC came across the Hudson River after the candidates they voted for destroyed New York. Rather than learn from the experience, the blissninnies continued to vote for the same type of socialists in their new home, resulting in such wonderous representatives as Florio (who shoved a true ban on "assault" rifles and normal capacity magazines down our throats), Richard Hughes (responsible for the '86 machine gun ban), Torrecelli, Lautenberg and Corzine.

One thing does bring a smile to my face - when I was on the Delaware Memorial Bridge on my way out of NJ and we passed the "Welcome to Delaware" sign, I turned to my wife and said, "Now you won't have to worry about bailing me out." Of course, this elicited the desired wide-eyed, slack-jawed expression that I was looking for, followed by "What!? What are you talking about?!" Since she was new to NJ and relatively new to the country, I explained the law to her - and the fact that I had at least 200 years of prison time sitting about 3 feet in back of her (in the form of normal cap magazines that had somehow or other found their way into my collection, at 5 years per). I didn't bother mentioning the penalties for owning the hundreds of hollowpoints or some of the other interesting things that were keeping the magazines company - it would have just confused the issue. Anyway, she then said, "This isn't a problem in Texas, is it?" When I explained that Texas was actually part of the United States of America - i.e. its citizens believe in individual liberty, an important part of which is guns, she said "I'm glad we're going there." So was I. While I didn't move because of guns, I'll never again live in an anti-gun jurisdiction: serving time in jail or getting killed by a bunch of over-enthusiastic JBT's for exercising rights that my father and grandfathers took for granted is not in my plans.