BATF attacks church congregation in military-style raid

WGBH (PBS) ^ | 1995

[ASTM366]

11th Anniversary:

As I do each year, I post this as a reminder to all of my fellow Freepers that our freedoms and liberties hang by a thin thread.

On Sunday, February 28, 1993, at 9:30 AM, nearly 100 heavily armed agents from Bureau of Alcohol, Tabacco and Firearms arrived at the Branch Davidian Compound in central Texas, near Waco.

They didn't go to Mt. Carmel to attend morning worship services, they went to execute a search warrant for illegal gun parts. After debarking from the cattle trailers and trucks that they arrived in, they immediately shot the dogs and puppies near the main entrance door. The leader of the Branch Davidians, known as David Koresh, opened the front door and was immediately fired upon by agents. A gun battle broke out that left 4 agents and 6 congregation members dead.

For the next 51 days a church congregation and law enforcement agencies of the United States government held each other at bay. The encircled congregation was subjected to psychological warfare techniques for most of the 51 days. On April 19, 1993 the US government attacked the site and the facility was burned to the ground. The origin of the fire is under constant dispute. Nonetheless, a total of 76 men, women, adolescents, children and infants died in the inferno.

To this day, not one federal agent has faced punishment or reprimand for the death of the INNOCENT men, women and children that died at Mt. Carmel.

[Zeroisanumber]

Vernon Howell was a crazy, child molesting sonofabitch.

That said, the raid was handled by idiots and managed by the criminally negligent. Reno should have been fired and horsewhipped.

[Zeroisanumber]

FBI learned, and improved. They handled the Montana Freemen with some class.

[Wombat101]

And now there is the potential for a President Hitlery armed with the Patriot Act to do it all over again at some future date...

[lonestar]

The biggest dirtbag at the time was in the Oval Office with an intern.

[NotchJohnson]

The ATF could have arrested Koresh outside, at stores, post offices etc. without doing this. It was a power play and no way in hell a bunch of whacko Christians are going to show Bill and that dyke.

[Dan from Michigan]

It's thugs like that individual with a badge that is the reason for the 2nd amendment.

[GrandEagle]

The biggest dirtbag at the time was in the Oval Office with an intern.
I agree. Unfit for any public office.

[Darheel]

"mass murder I'll agree. Christian? that's a stretch".

Christian, yes, wayward ones. They rolled tanks onto their property and set them on fire. They could have NOT violated the posse commitatus, a law that is worthless in light of their crimes at the BD. But instead, the FBI committed murder, cold blooded murder, of innocent people and children, and still are oppressing them to this day. Waco and Clinton bombing Serbian Christian churches are infamnias.

[sport]

I am glad to hear that.

There is/was lots of room for improvement.

I hope that it was just a case of being polluted by the clinton crime cartel.

That being said, I saw and heard on America's Most Wanted that the fbi are still looking for Weatherman terrorists from the 60s.

If they put forth one millionth of the effort that do going after reinactors and gun collectors who , other than speeding, have never violated a law, they would have caught them years ago.

[John H K]

Christian? that's a stretch.

If they were a weird pseudo-Muslim sect the compound burning at Waco would be celebrated as a holiday on FR.

[Robert_Paulson2]

you are possibly right...
then again, a wacko christian sect did not blow up the World Trade Center, and our pentagon by calculated crashing of liquid fuel bombs made of flesh, steel and airplane fuel.

not the same thing.
however I personally could not condone the burning alive of ONE group of islamaniacs, for what another group did. That would be wrong.

Maybe you should give freepers more credit than that.

[Trinity_Tx]

"Vernon Howell was a crazy, child molesting sonofabitch.

That said, the raid was handled by idiots and managed by the criminally negligent. Reno should have been fired and horsewhipped."

Agreed - on both counts. Sometimes I think we get so blind with anger at Reno et al that we give Howell a pass.

And as a mother, I have to say that if I ever became so hyperfocussed on radical fringe religious and political causes that I needlessly put my children's health and safety secondary to them, I'd judge myself worthy of the ultimate in condemnation.

With all the media and lawyers out there, these women (and men IMHO) would have made their cases a heck of a lot more convincingly had they used the system instead of acting like a bunch of fools.

The only innocents in that building were the children.

So, while I condemn Reno et al, it bugs me to see the losers from inside get even a suggestion of a pass.

(I wont cry if you flame me, btw... And I wont get into a fuss over it. That's just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.)

[John Lenin]

bump

[cyborg]

ditto

[agitator]

"It's thugs like that individual with a badge that is the reason for the 2nd amendment."

Interestingly, he's a longstanding NRA member with probably a 180 IQ. The problem is that there are "good guys" and there are "dirtbags." And his attitude isn't uncommon.

Once someone has been relegated to the category of "dirtbags" through demonization, anything goes. The discussion ceases to be about people, it's about "dirtbags."
Untermensch.

[Dan from Michigan]

Agree on Reno, and let' not forget the dept of the treasury(which oversees the BATF) either.

But Howell/Koresh wasn't even CHARGED with being a child molestor. He was only charged for guns. I don't know if he was one or not. BUT the easiest way to demonize someone is with that lable.

[Zeroisanumber]

I remember reading that Howell was after some of the younger (10-15) girls inside the compound and had made some his "betrothed" or whatever. I know that that's hopelessly vague, but it's been a good long time and I can't remember the details offhand.

[Dan from Michigan]

And his attitude isn't uncommon

I have that attitude myself at times. It's one reason why I wouldn't to be a cop. My guess is that he's seen dozens of jackasses in his day that any decent person would put in the 'dirtbag' category.

He's probably a good guy most of the time, but that perspective can also cloud judgement after awhile. "They're all dirtbags".

[Dan from Michigan]

And more importantly, what will happen if the AG tells the FBI director, who tells Capt Murphy that this guy is a dirtbag????