Election: The growing polarization of California

Sac Bee ^ | 2/29/04 | Mark Baldassare

[NormsRevenge]

When California voters head to the polls on Tuesday, Democrats will select a challenger to President George W. Bush and Republicans will pick their contender against U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer. Equally important, in a state where party control of legislative seats is all but assured by redistricting, it is these same Democratic and Republican voters who will determine which of the current primary candidates will go on to reap lopsided state Senate and Assembly victories in the general election this fall.

[EEDUDE]

"Mark you, it is in no way difficult OR expensive (compared to the initial cost of the systems, most of which are taxpayer ripoffs to start) to provide these safeguards, and anyone saying otherwise is either A) utterly ignorant, B) a liar, C) a corrupt politician or hanger-on, or D) all of the above."


As a guy who designs this kinds of electronics, I could not agree with you more.

No big deal at all to provide an audit trail.

We do it all the time in banking and other industries, where there is no illusion at all about the possible failure of these electronics.

They DO fail and they CAN be tampered with.

This is a little bit frightening to me. The more I learn about this, the more I like the idea of paper ballots.

Anyone who can't properly use a paper ballot is too stupid to be voting anyway.

[Amerigomag]

Californians who are searching for reasons why their Legislature is so gridlocked and ineffective should look no further than the primary voters like themselves who are choosing their party's candidates

You betcha Mark. I'll surrender my core beliefs so we can all get along on our way to the third world. My advice to you Mark is to take your thoughts and stuff them where the sun don't shine.

For my part Mark, I'm going to use all my creative energy figuring how to get you and your's the hell out of California.

[Cacique]

Welcome home to FReeRepublic

[Amerigomag]

Andy, the trend toward electronic voting will probably continue. The aim is to make the process part of a large area network.

In the interim us old fogies can subvert the process by continuing to vote absentee. I expect the absentee process will revert to it's original intent as its use grows in response to suspicions of the security of the touch screen.

I have complete faith that a networked system will be compromised soon after introduction, the governance will unsuccessfully attempt to suppress the news and these discussions will continue among our grandchildren.

[Andy_Stephenson]

On this issue...Democrats and Republicans can agree.

Paper...not vapor.

[Andy_Stephenson]

In King county Washington there is no gurantee absentee voting is any safer. Here we have an ex-felon receiving and sorting incoming absentee ballots. I have documented proff that there was an attempt to rig an election using those ballots. We need strong procedures in place they are simple to implement and are very cost effective. It is really not a tech problem but an audit problem.

We don't take stairwells out of buildings just because we have elevators. We should not give up the paper ballot just because we have electronic ballots.

The Diebold system is bad...Sequoia is worse. We are going to see voter disenfranchisement on a far greater scale than we have seen before IMHO. It will affect all...not just Republicans but Democrats as well. I, quite frankly, would lay down my life for a Republicans right to vote and have it counted fairly. I am sure Republicans feel the same. The vote is the one right that keeps us from tyranny.

We must protect it fiercely. In my campaign I have had Republicans say they were voting for me because of my stance on the voting machine issue.

[Andy_Stephenson]

anyone saying otherwise is either A) utterly ignorant, B) a liar, C) a corrupt politician or hanger-on, or D) all of the above.

There are 5 talking points now...If they follow them they are definately one of the above.

Andy

[SAJ]

Exactimundo. I do the same thing you do, except on the software side. As the famous Roman consul and lawyer Cicero once did, we have to ask ourselves a question about audit-trailless systems: Cui bono? Who benefits? I bet you and I know the answers to THAT one straightaway, eh?

A voting system simply MUST have paper, and preferably a receipt printed for the voter, too. Even as corrupt as St. Louis is, election-wise, the corruption is in the people, esp. the North Side hacks. The voting SYSTEM itself (which uses, guess what, butterfly ballots...and has for at least 3 decades) has no problems at all. I and my old sidekick, Bernie Gerwel, used to zip on down to the Election Board HQ a week or so before every election and RECERTIFY the software (and when have you heard about, say, Diebold doing **that**, hmm?), using a collection of 8 sample sets of 12K ballots each. Took about 3 hours the first time, and we gradually got it down to less than an hour by 1993. One time, it went so quickly -- completely glitch-free, that we didn't even bill the Board, just had 'em take us out to lunch (g!).

[SAJ]

Absolutely. I've argued this very point for years.

Give the voter a point-of-voting receipt (exactly like a VISA card receipt), spit the other, presumably carbonless, copy into a bin below the booth (locked, of course), and Bob's your uncle. Simplest thing in the world for maintaining integrity. But, we DO want a stroke/click/touch log, too -- mostly for determining malfunction, but also to catch out certain types of fraud that might be inserted into the control software.

Now, just WHO do you think DOESN'T want these safeguards? Uh huh. Right first time.

FReegards!

[Amerigomag]

We must protect it fiercely. In my campaign I have had Republicans say they were voting for me because of my stance on the voting machine issue.

I know of no one, repeat no one, in Fresno County who supports electronic voting except county government because the state has reduced their income to the point that they can't staff polling places, even with volunteers.

Where they think they'll get the money for the hardware and the network rental is beyond me.

No I know. Schwarzenegger will add additional taxes to the existing telecommunications infrastructure to pay for the new system.

But first Schwarzenegger will accept generous campaign contributions from Cisco Systems and Diebold.

[Truthsayer20]

"...is essentially a Third World country..."

I wonder how an "essentially Third World country" can have the fifth largest ecomony in the world and have some of the world's most innovative companies and universities? Or is your comment just about White folks being a minority in California?

[Truthsayer20]

"So in general, those states with more and larger parasite centers went 'blue' (Democrat) while those states with less and smaller parasite centers went 'red' (Republican)."

I wonder why most studies then show that the "parasite centers" actually send tax monies to the rural areas (i.e. pay more in taxes than get back from the gov)? There are tons of federal welfare farmers in rural areas.

[Bullish]

How could anyone with even half a real brain ever vote for someone like Gore?

It's really puzzling to me, how anyone could have analyzed the 90s and come to the conclusion that the Clinton\Gore agenda was good for America, when they almost destroyed us.

I'm glad you and some of the Gore voters are seeing the light, but what the heck took you so long?

[Osage Orange]

You wrote:

"On this issue...Democrats and Republicans can agree.

Paper...not vapor. "

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Maybe so....maybe not. My guess is that those Dem's within the entrenched political power structures....would/will sputter and spit..and blow smoke. While a majority of Pubbies would agree....

This is based on some factual info...and some anecdotal evidence...which is about all one could ever hope to obtain anyway....Ha!!

[Osage Orange]

You wrote:

"I'm glad you and some of the Gore voters are seeing the light, but what the heck took you so long? "

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While I also welcome those who've finally "seen the light" I also wonder........

FRegards,

[Betaille]

"how anyone could have analyzed the 90s and come to the conclusion that the Clinton\Gore agenda was good for America"

The Economy was good in the 90's, we were at peace, and Leiberman seemed somewhat conservative on social issues, I didn't see a reason to not vote for Gore. I was too young to understand what it was like during the cold war so I wasn't compelled by the republicans view on defense, and I didn't really like Bush at the time, or even the fact that a party affiliated with the rich was now starting a dynasty.
However now I know much better. National Security is a big issue again and Democrats have been completely anti-american since 2002(The first year I voted Republican). In addition, Kerry and the other dems in the presidential race are very Liberal on Social Issues. So I guess you could say my reasons for turning to Bush are similar to Zell Miller's. Also after living in the south for a few years I started to understand and like Bush's personality.

[Andy_Stephenson]

According to HAVA...we will all be using DRE's. It's the law. The money for these paperless voting systems is coming from the fed (of course). BTW rental is not an option. These machines are bought by the counties.

Oh and never call it a reciept...call it a ballot.

[calcowgirl]

The Diebold system is bad...Sequoia is worse.

Our past Secretary of State, Bill Jones brought us electronic voting, and fought adding additional security measures. After leaving that position, he went to work as a consultant for Sequoia Voting Systems. He is now the leading Republican Candidate for US Senate from California.

It will be a long time before I believe that these systems are secure and not rigged.

[Bullish]

You obviously have much more than "half a brain". You were like so many that aren't educated to the true stakes of the political and cultural war that we're engaged in.

You've educated yourself and come to the only realistic conclusions. Congrats.

I'm heartened to see that smart people like yourself and Zell Miller can only be fooled for so long.

[Bullish]

May I also suggest that you change your party affiliation to Republican, if not, anything but democrat.