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Explorer Madog 'Never Existed' (Prince Madoc)
IC Wales ^ | 2-27-2004 | Darren Devine

Posted on 02/27/2004 12:12:09 PM PST by blam

Explorer Madog 'never existed' Feb 27 2004

Darren Devine, The Western Mail

A CONTROVERSIAL new book has rubbished claims that a Welsh explorer Prince Madog discovered America hundreds of years before Christopher Columbus.

The story of the prince fleeing to America in about 1170 after his father King Owain's death unleashed a battle for the succession has held sway over popular imagination in Wales for centuries.

But Did Prince Madog discover America? claims the explorer did not even exist and attempts to credit him with finding America were simply made to deny Spain's claim to the country.

Author Michael Senior, from Glan Conwy, says it is "practically certain that there was no such historical personage as this Prince Madog".

He believes confusion over Madog's existence may have arisen from references in literature to another Madog.

This Madog was one of King Owain's followers and Mr Senior believes he may have been credited with feats he never actually accomplished - like leading an expedition to America.

Mr Senior, 63, who has written widely about the history of Wales said, "Things probably got attached to him as they did with people like King Arthur - lots of diverse stories became attached to one hero figure.

"I think Prince Madog is a representative of this idea of people who did exist and did go to America - this man simply stands for them.

"It's just they have given him a name."

The author also suggests Columbus was not even the first European to go to America.

"There were plenty of people there when the first Europeans arrived so you can't really say there was a discovery - it's misleading.

"The Vikings from Greenland got there about 1,000AD and there is archaeological evidence that they settled that is quite clear."

But Mr Senior does not altogether dismiss the story that Madog's descendants in America formed a tribe of Welsh-speaking, white-skinned Indians.

He says if his premise that Madog did not exist is wrong then such a tribe may well have existed.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: caradocofllancarfan; existed; explorer; godsgravesglyphs; madoc; madocmorfran; madog; never; princemadoc; richardhakluyt
There is a placque here at the entrance to Mobile Bay at Ft Morgan that commerates Prince Madoc's landing here in 1170AD.
1 posted on 02/27/2004 12:12:09 PM PST by blam
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To: farmfriend
Some interesting associated reading here
2 posted on 02/27/2004 12:14:02 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
George Catlin, American Artist, was a firm believer in Madoc, tracing the expansion up the Missouri river to present day Mandan ND.
Check out his book NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS.
3 posted on 02/27/2004 12:41:32 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: blam
But Mr Senior does not altogether dismiss the story that Madog's descendants in America formed a tribe of Welsh-speaking, white-skinned Indians. He says if his premise that Madog did not exist is wrong then such a tribe may well have existed.

"If everything in my book is wrong, then the opposite may well be true." Weird.

We used to live near the "Old Stone Fort" in central Tennessee, which was once considered to have been built by the Welsh explorers. Now they say proto-Cherokees built it, but how one could tell is beyond me. A very interesting site.

4 posted on 02/27/2004 1:54:44 PM PST by Tax-chick ("I will not be wronged; I will not be insulted." (John Wayne)
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To: Tax-chick
"Now they say proto-Cherokees built it, but how one could tell is beyond me. A very interesting site."

Maybe the proto-Cherokee were the Welsh, huh?

Also, the materials used and the style is representitive of who built it.

5 posted on 02/27/2004 2:32:00 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Could be. Lots of rocks.
6 posted on 02/27/2004 2:34:57 PM PST by Tax-chick ("I will not be wronged; I will not be insulted." (John Wayne)
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To: farmfriend
Will you give me a GGG ping here, thanks.
7 posted on 02/27/2004 3:20:16 PM PST by blam
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; A.J.Armitage; abner; adam_az; AdmSmith; Alas Babylon!; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.
8 posted on 02/27/2004 3:52:27 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: blam
He believes confusion over Madog's existence may have arisen from references in literature to another Madog.

This Madog was one of King Owain's followers and Mr Senior believes he may have been credited with feats he never actually accomplished - like leading an expedition to America.


Shakespear did NOT write Shakespear's plays; it was different guy, named William Shakespear.

Ho-hum.
9 posted on 02/27/2004 4:34:16 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: Fedora
Check out the links posted in #2.
10 posted on 02/27/2004 4:44:56 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Check out the links posted in #2.

Thanks, I've added it to my bookmarks and will work through it later. BTW here's a book on a related subject I found interesting:

Geoffrey Ashe, The Discovery of King Arthur

11 posted on 02/27/2004 5:22:15 PM PST by Fedora
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To: blam
Author Michael Senior, from Glan Conwy, says it is "practically certain that there was no such historical personage as this Prince Madog".

He believes confusion over Madog's existence may have arisen from references in literature to another Madog.
=====================================
I read once that the Iliad was not written by Homer but by another blind poet by the same name!

12 posted on 02/27/2004 7:29:47 PM PST by night reader
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To: night reader
I read once that the Iliad was not written by Homer but by another blind poet by the same name!

I've read that, too--in fact, I heard they've recently identified the authentic Homer and determined how he went blind:


13 posted on 02/27/2004 8:08:25 PM PST by Fedora
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To: blam

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
From 2004, never got the ping message.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


14 posted on 12/29/2008 10:42:49 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile finally updated Saturday, December 6, 2008 !!!)
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