I don't want to sound like Rosie O'Donnell (I strongly believe that "For every Jew, a 22"-- and fervently support gun rights), but you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home, go hunting, or form the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression. About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.
First of all, YES, the militia needs them. Why? Do you think your soft point .30-06 hunting rounds can penetrate the skin of a Soviet BMP or a Cadillac-Gauge V series Commando? Some forms of AP can. If our nation faces tyranny from within or without, we will need those kinds of munitions. M113 APC's can withstand your hunting rounds while the M2HB on top drops 600 rounds a minute of .50 BMG AP in on you.
Notice that I'm not even concerned with bullet resistant vests? There is a reason for that. There aren't many vests in the world that will stop a .308 FMJ or worse yet, a .300 WM round. There is no individual vest made that can even come close to stopping a .50 BMG M33 ball round.
Any restrictions on AP ammunition is to weaken our civilian defense against oppression or an invasion that our military alone cannot stop. That is it. It goes hand in hand with the resistance of arming pilots and resistance to a national standard on CCW.
I have nearly 15 years of experience with AP and other "exotic" ammunition. Trust me, the blowhards that propose the legislation banning this stuff have no clue about it or guns in general. Personally, I'd like to see the government work hand in hand with the civilian population on making sure that we the people have the proper arms and ammunition to defend our nation and lives against any tyranny.
Mike
So you missed the video from LA where the robbers were covered in body armor?
go hunting,
My friend, my 300 WinMag WILL go through body armor easily. It is the SPEED of the bullet that does it, and NOT some special bullet design
or form the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression.
ROFL! You don't think an oppressive government force would be wearing armor?!? NOW you're just being ludicrous!
So you want the government to decide what you need? Would you like them to decide what you need to attend services at your synagogue? How about what you need for a front door. We can't have front doors that would keep a law enforcment officer from entering. You don't need that big car either. A bicycle will suffice. You don't need more than 1200 calories per day. Eat more and you're under arrest.
First off, the number of cops that have been killed by "armor piercing bullets" is, I'm nearly 100% certain, Z_E_R_O! Believe me, if any have been killed by them, the numbers would have been trumpeted in the media. Secondly, the first time this nonsense went around, police agencies BEGGED the media NOT to publicize it... You see, at the time, body armor for police officers wasn't really public knowledge... Of course, the media in it's frenzy to ban ammunition, went on with the stories... And the number of officers killed went up. You see, more officers were being shot in the head, since the bad guys now knew about the body armor.
As have been stated numerous times before, armor piercing ammunition isn't really a problem. Sort of like banning the plastic guns. They don't exists, but let's ban them anyway, just in case. The problem is that if the definition of an "armor piercing bullet" is one that can go through body armor, then just about every high velocity centerfire rifle ammunition would be banned. That would include my buddie's 7mm Remington Mag rifle, which he just used to bag a deer during hunting season. It would also ban my .308 rifle. And my .223.
Unfortunately, you're a big part of the problem... You've got the same attitude as some of the "shotgun sportsmen." Why do you need to hunt at all? Then there are the shotgun hunters. "Why do you need a rifle to hunt?" Or even the rifle hunters... "Why do you need a handgun?" In my case, I used to hunt with all three. But hunting has nothing to do with the Constitutional reasons for owning guns.
"If we don't hang together, we'll hang seperately."
Mark
A brief education: "Armor Piercing" is a military term about a bullet designed to penetrate light armor. Typically these have steel cores so they are heavier thus more kinetic energy and will borrow through more armor. "Armor Piercing" bullets are already outlawed.
"Cop killer" or bullets that will penetrate protective vests are different and subjective to a lot of things. A large pistol bullet at close range can penetrate a protective vest. A rifle bullet designed to bring down a heavy animal (deer, elk) will penetrate all vests at short range. Vests also "age". Older vests don't stop bullets as well. Vests are also made in grades or stopping power. Some will stop more, others less and that is the way they are designed.
So we allow a law to be passed that is vague like this one. Then antigunners have an easy way to ban all centerfire ammo. Take an old lightweight vest, shoot it with a centerfire rifle at close range (with any kind of hunting or taget ammo), and claim that the bulets are "cop killers" because they penetrate the vest.
You think gang-bangers can't get vests as easily as they get illegal guns? You think they wouldn't put one on just before they KNOW they're going to be using guns?
Plus, if there's any unpleasantness in suburbia, it will most likely take the form of thugs showing up in vehicles -- in which case ammo capable of penetrating a car body or disabling an engine block would be EXACTLY what was needed.
So why then does the local police armory contain a stockpile of AP ammo? Are they planning on killing other cops?
You don't "need" porn either, but it's protected under the 1st Amendment. You don't "need" to join the Wiccans, as the Catholic Church is available and will do just fine, but joining the Wiccans is protected under the 1st Amendment. Where is the "need" clause of the 2nd Amendment?
Too late.
"About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops."
Define "armor-piercing" ammunition.
About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.