[ChicagoHebrew]

When the NRA supports a gun control bill, I think it's safe to say it's a good bill.

I don't want to sound like Rosie O'Donnell (I strongly believe that "For every Jew, a 22"-- and fervently support gun rights), but you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home, go hunting, or form the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression. About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.

[Imal]

You may want to examine the slippery slope of such arguments.

[philetus]

It's also good for cheap jackrabbit hunting with an .06.

[ApesForEvolution]

Wow. You're brilliant. /sarcasm

[philetus]

armor piercing ammunition has been around since wwI.
Not too many stories of cops being killed with it.

[Mr. Mojo]

you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home

From the article: "If government employees can deploy AP ammo against the people, denying that same ammunition to the people is directly contradictory to the meaning, purpose and intent of the Second Amendment: a balance of power."

[El Gato]

When the NRA supports a gun control bill, I think it's safe to say it's a good bill.

Riight. They supported the '68 gun control act, the 1934 National Firearms Act, and others. Their "compromise" on the NFA was that the original bill would have put handguns under the same controls as machine guns. No bill that infringes upons the right of the people to keep and bear arms is a "good bill" by Constitutional definition.

The NRA's strategy has almost always been to limit the damage, rather than trying to prevent it entirely, or should the worst happen, hope the people press the "reset button". They've contributed greatly, if inadvertently, to the "boiling of the frog".

[El Gato]

but you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home, go hunting, or form the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression. About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.

Who's the government to decide what I need, especially in light of the Constitutional prohibition on doing just that with regard to arms. Besides, real AP, not just regular ammo that can penetrate a vest designed to stop pistol bullets, could come in mighty handy should the need to defend against government oppression ever become acute, which is undoubtedly what bothers the policritters. Secondly the performance standards for legally defined AP would likely sweep up virtually all center fire rifle ammunition, and that you do need to hunt, defend your home, etc, etc.

[Richard-SIA]

You must be kidding?

Today the .50, tomorrow the .49, then the .450, the .338, .308, .223, .17......

We cannot accept ANY further erosions of our RKBA!

The slope is too slippery already, it is time to get some traction and begin REPEALING all "gun control" legislation.

The current limit of .50 was arbitrary, and made the very rare .55 Boyes rifle an NFA weapon for no legitimate reason.

So far as I know NRA does not support this amendment, I have already e-mailed them about it. I expect an answer in the morning.

Personally, I want a 20mm anti-tank gun.
The .50 may not not be enough for some scenario's that I can easily envision.

RKBA is NOT about "Hunting", it is about citizens retaining the credible ability to resist our own government if it ever becomes truly tyrannical.

[Don Joe]

I don't want to sound like Rosie O'Donnell (I strongly believe that "For every Jew, a 22"-- and fervently support gun rights), but you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home, go hunting, or form the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression. About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.

First off, unless I'm mistaken, that quote ("For every Jew, a 22") originated with Kahane, who is by most accounting a somewhat less than stable hothead. Or was, that is. The point being that quoting it will not gain you much traction, and will only serve to paint you into a rhetorical corner.

Secondly, it's absurd at face value. It rhymes, yeah. That's the entire extent of its merit. The only things a .22 are good for are a) learning to shoot (on the cheap)/plinking; b) hunting squirrels and similar non-kosher small game; c) mafia-style executions (try persuading your legislator of that as a valid reason!); and d) pissing off a violent attacker.

Now, that out of the way, we're faced with the agitprop du jour.

The term "armor-piercing bullet", as defined by the legislators, outlaws all centerfire hunting ammunition, as well as the sabbotted shotgun slugs the poster above me mentioned. Most likely it'll also outlaw "traditional" shotgun slugs too, since they'll probably kill the wearer even if they don't "pierce" the vest. They pack a hell of a wallop at close range, even though they're useless at anything approaching "rifle distance".

Please don't buy into the propaganda -- either Kahane's or Feinstein's. Use your head, and see past the definitions game.

Did you know that in Feinstein's early "assault weapon" drafts, she had all "repeating arms" defined as "semi-automatic weapons"?

Do you see how the game is played?

First, you demonize a term -- and then, you apply it willy nilly, regardless of any rational application. If it applies legally, then it is moot whether or not the "legal definition" is absurd.

In case you're wondering what's the difference between "repeating arms" and "semi-automatic weapons", it's simple. If you're discussing anything other than a single-shot firearm, it's a "repeating arm".

The old single-action cowboy revolver? "Repeating arm."

Grampaw's old Winchester 30-30 lever-action? "Repeating arm."

That pump or bolt-action deer rifle? "Repeating arm."

I'll shut up now. Hopefully you've had an "ah-hah!" moment. Drop that Kahane tripe, don't try to sound cool using silly stuff, go to the range, meet some people who know what they're talking about, learn to shoot largebore handguns and centerfire rifles, and above all, don't get snowed by the antis with their ever-present word games. They'd redefine the ground out from under you if they ever figured out a way to pull it off.

[wysiwyg]

About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.

Not even close. Even the lowly .223 will defeat the body armor that police use. Most, if not all, hunting rifle ammunition will do the same. The .223 will even pierce 3/8" steel plate, so is that "armor-piercing" ammunition?

In any case, the definition is too easy for anti-gun judges and bureaucrats to interpret any way they want.

[archy]

About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.

Well, we sure wouldn't want THAT to happen....Why, that could keep them from obeying their orders and doing their jobs!

[Leatherneck_MT]

"About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops."

you forgot

when they come to confiscate your weapons.

[suijuris]

but you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home, go hunting, or form the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression.

Bet they could have used some armour piercing ammo in Warsaw.

[Triple]

"you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home" - C.H.

You do when the folks busting into your home, or occupying your town are wearing vests.

Perhaps you can handle them with a sharpened spoon, but as for me, a member of the unorganized militia, I want the most effective weapons possible at my disposal.

[Little Ray]

It ain't about Armor Piercing ammo. It is about being able to call some type of ammo "armor piercing" and ban it.
The gun control fascists would love to be able to call all jacketed ammo "armor piercing" and ban it. They they would ban all lead ammo under EPA regulations...

Simple fact is, few or no cops have been killed by AP ammo and there is no need for a "ban."

[Dan from Michigan]

If you are a hunter, you have armor piercing ammo.

Almost anything 'centerfire' is "armor piercing". My uncle got a deer with a .30-30(A basic hunting round), which was specificly mentioned by Ted Kennedy. .30-06 is another hunting round....also used by the US Military in M1-Garands.

[Shooter 2.5]

When someone says they support gun rights in their first sentences, it's usually proven they don't. You can save some key strokes by not even bothering to write it.

[looscnnn]

"but you don't need an armor piercing bullet to defend your home, go hunting, or form the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression. About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops."

Think of "armor piercing bullet" instead of armor piercing bullet when a liberal is talking about them. Like "assault weapons". True, you don't need true armor piercing ammunition for hunting, etc. However, for the citizen's militia that defends against government oppression I would think that you would want it. Anyway, just about any centerfire ammo will penitrate the majority of bullet proof vests. This would make my Winchester Silvertip 30-.06 ammo illegal, as it would go through the vests. Are they true armo piercing ammo? No. However, they are "armor piercing" ammo.

[Delmarksman]

"About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops."

Wow you really got a 20 watt light bulb going there don't ya!

Please take as long as you like, and get back to me with a Catalogging of every instance where a Cop was killed with AP Ammo.

To come up with even a Few it's gonna take you a LOOOONNNNGGG time. Because it just doesn't happen very often.

When any standard Centerfire Rifle round will penetrate body armor or even plate steel why not just ban them all.(/sarcasm)

[Atlas Sneezed]

About the only thing you need armor piercing ammunition for is killing cops.

---

Actually, the AP capability has almost nothing to do with lethalithy to someone wearing a kevlar vest.

It has everything to do with tyrants and their agents who arrived in armored vehicles (including their limosines.)

Ask yourself, (knowing that AP is common and cheap because it is surplus cast-offs from militaries around the world) why it is so popular for militaries? And if it is so useful for militaries githting wars, why wouldn't it be useful for citizen militia members defending freedom?