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St. Paul Police Seek Tips in Bar Homicide
St. Paul PD web site ^ | 2/23/04 | brbethke

Posted on 02/23/2004 6:15:01 AM PST by brbethke

The Saint Paul Police Department needs your help in identifying the suspect involved in the homicide on an innocent victim. The suspect is shown in the photographs below. The facts are as follows:

On 02-20-04, shortly after 1:00 AM, the suspect re-entered Arnellia's Bar, located at 1183 University Avenue in St. Paul. The suspect fired a handgun multiple times, killing an innocent bystander. The suspect is described as a black male, 5-7, 180 lbs. The suspect was wearing a gray t-shirt with NBA logo on the chest and blue jeans with NBA patches.

If you have any information, please contact the St. Paul Police Department Hoimicide Unit at 651-266-5664, or the Communications Center at 651-291-1111.


The rest of the original article is two sequences of still-frames taken from the security cameras on the scene. I want to draw your attention to two specific images:

The clearest pic of the killer's face:

And the exterior camera which caught the killer's escape:

Note the yellow sign on the door. In accordance with the posting provisions of the Minnesota Personal Protection Law, it says: "Arnellia's Bar Bans Guns In These Premises."

Clearly, *that* did a lot of good.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; concealedcarry; minnesota
Much of the newspaper and TV commentary has focused on the fact that there was an off-duty St. Paul cop in the bar who witnessed the shooting but did not interfere or pursue the fleeing suspect. This morning the Pioneer Press is shocked -- shocked! -- to learn that the cop was not carrying a gun.

Of course he wasn't. The place was *posted*. That yellow sign is all the personal protection any sane person reasonably needs, right?

1 posted on 02/23/2004 6:15:02 AM PST by brbethke
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To: brbethke
"there was an off-duty St. Paul cop in the bar who witnessed the shooting but did not interfere or pursue the fleeing suspect. This morning the Pioneer Press is shocked -- shocked! -- to learn that the cop was not carrying a gun."

He should be fired.

2 posted on 02/23/2004 6:26:16 AM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets
The current controversy (and many lawsuits) focuses on the "posting" provision in our new concealed carry law. Many of us have been arguing that posting only amounts to declaring a place to be a GDVZ (Guaranteed Defenseless Victim Zone).

The cop was only complying with the law. Under the current law he could at best have a gun unloaded, cased, and locked in the trunk of his car.

Strangely enough, *none* of the news stories I've seen so far include those last four frames from the surveillance camera. I wonder why?

3 posted on 02/23/2004 6:35:45 AM PST by brbethke
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To: spunkets
The cop obviously can't be trusted with a gun or a beer.
4 posted on 02/23/2004 6:36:48 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: brbethke
Yes, I agree the sign makes it a GDVZ.

The story says the guy reentered the bar. There must of been a disturbance the cop probably would have been aware of. Being a cop he should have known the guy would likely come back, or be hiding outside waiting for a victim. He should have been suspicious, checked it out and been ready for the return. At minimum he should have pursued the perp at enough distance to ID a plate, on foot route and made an attempt to retrieve his gun, radio and make and arrest, or shoot him. Now the perp is loose and will endanger others.

" Strangely enough, *none* of the news stories..."

Liberal media in a liberal town.

5 posted on 02/23/2004 6:54:01 AM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets
WHY... he is off duty, he is not 24/7...he is just a guy with a job...
6 posted on 02/23/2004 7:23:32 AM PST by camas
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To: camas
"he is just a guy with a job."

If that's his ethos, then he should get a job mopping the bar room floor. He failed to take action against a perp that committed one of the greatest crimes imaginable. I'm not even a cop and I would have taken action w/o pay.

7 posted on 02/23/2004 7:29:04 AM PST by spunkets
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To: jdege; Johnny Gage; Valin; WorkingClassFilth
egotistical bump.

If you're looking for contemporary proof that gun control laws only give homicidal thugs a clear field of fire, this is about as clear an example as you're going to find.

8 posted on 02/23/2004 7:40:45 AM PST by brbethke
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To: Solson
I-can't-believe-this bump
9 posted on 02/23/2004 7:47:32 AM PST by brbethke
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To: camas
Actually in St Paul you are a cop 24/7. This cop and the police chief are going to have a little chat today. He may very well lose his job.
10 posted on 02/23/2004 8:07:21 AM PST by Valin (America is the land mine between barbarism and civilization.)
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To: Valin
But as I recall the "posting" provision of the MPPA makes no exception for off-duty cops, and thanks to preemption the MPPA takes precedence over any city regulation or ordinance. The worst they can nail this cop for is failing to render first aid or failing to file a report before leaving the scene.
11 posted on 02/23/2004 8:19:46 AM PST by brbethke
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To: brbethke
This is exactly the type of story that, with Jason Lewis still around, would have had major exposure. Now, without Jason, we're going to have to work hard to make sure this hits the top news cycles.
12 posted on 02/23/2004 8:39:05 AM PST by Solson (Our work is the presentation of our capabilities. - Von Goethe)
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To: brbethke
More pictures at:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/joelrosenberg/17770.html

13 posted on 02/23/2004 8:42:27 AM PST by jdege
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To: jdege
Yep. That's the whole sequence that's on the StPPD web site. Scary, innit?

For some reason it instills in me an unreasoning desire to buy that Colt Cobra I was looking at this weekend.

14 posted on 02/23/2004 8:46:38 AM PST by brbethke
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To: spunkets
I'm not even a cop and I would have taken action w/o pay.

You are thinking as a private citizen and not a public employee.

Think for a minute about you being an off-duty police officer, in a bar. You are probably drinking, since that is what most people do in a bar, and a felony is committed. Off you go and apprehend the criminal. Good for you. However, the criminal notices there is the smell of alcohol about you. The arresting officers who are called to assist you also smell alcohol on your breath.

Can you say Internal Affairs investigation?

Can you say Law Suit by Defendant's attorney for the broken fingernail, you as a drunken and habitually hard-drinking, alcoholic police officer brutally inflicted upon his pure-as-the-driven-snow client who was only after enough money to feed his starving family because George Bush personally terminated his welfare payments and his kids school lunches?

We are not in Kansas anymore and the OK Corral doesn't exist.

If a police officer doesn't do EVERYTHING by the book the do-er walks free and the cop gets busted and sued.

15 posted on 02/23/2004 8:59:16 AM PST by N. Theknow (John Kerry is nothing more than Ted Kennedy without a dead girl in the car.)
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To: brbethke
The worst they can nail this cop for is failing to render first aid or failing to file a report before leaving the scene.

And that's a big thing. We'll see just what the outcome of this is. But as for the officer in question, his career in law enforcement has hit a BIG bump in the road.
16 posted on 02/23/2004 9:25:31 AM PST by Valin (America is the land mine between barbarism and civilization.)
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To: brbethke
Thanks!
17 posted on 02/23/2004 1:11:57 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth (DEFUND PBS & NPR - THE AMERICAN PRAVDA)
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