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Irreducible Complexity is an Obstacle to Darwinism Even if Parts of a System have other Functions
Discovery Institute ^ | February 18, 2004 | Michael J. Behe

Posted on 02/18/2004 3:41:01 PM PST by Heartlander

Irreducible Complexity is an Obstacle to Darwinism Even if Parts of a System have other Functions:
A Response to Sharon Begley’s Wall Street Journal Column

Michael J. Behe
Discovery Institute
February 18, 2004

In a recent column in the Wall Street Journal (February 13, 2004, Science Journal, page B1, “Evolution Critics Come Under Fire for Flaws In 'Intelligent Design'”) science writer Sharon Begley repeated some false claims about the concept of irreducible complexity (IC) that have been made by Darwinists, in particular by Kenneth Miller, a professor of biology at Brown University. After giving a serviceable description in her column of why I argue that a mousetrap is IC, Begley added the Darwinist poison pill to the concept. The key misleading assertion in the article is the following: “Moreover, the individual parts of complex structures supposedly serve no function.” In other words, opponents of design want to assert that if the individual parts of a putatively IC structure can be used for anything at all other than their role in the system under consideration, then the system itself is not IC. So, for example, Kenneth Miller has seriously argued that a part of a mousetrap could be used as a paperweight, so not even a mousetrap is IC. Now, anything that has mass could be used as a paperweight. Thus by Miller’s tendentious reasoning any part of any system at all has a separate “function”. Presto! There is no such thing as irreducible complexity.

That’s what often happens when people who are adamantly opposed to an idea publicize their own definitions of its key terms--the terms are manipulated to wage a PR battle. The evident purpose of Miller and others is to make the concept of IC so brittle that it easily crumbles. However, they are building a straw man. I never wrote that individual parts of an IC system couldn’t be used for any other purpose. (That would be silly--who would ever claim that a part of a mousetrap couldn’t be used as a paperweight, or a decoration, or a blunt weapon?) Quite the opposite, I clearly wrote in Darwin’s Black Box that even if the individual parts had their own functions, that still does not account for the irreducible complexity of the system. In fact, it would most likely exacerbate the problem, as I stated when considering whether parts lying around a garage could be used to make a mousetrap without intelligent intervention.
In order to catch a mouse, a mousetrap needs a platform, spring, hammer, holding bar, and catch. Now, suppose you wanted to make a mousetrap. In your garage you might have a piece of wood from an old Popsicle stick (for the platform), a spring from an old wind-up clock, a piece of metal (for the hammer) in the form of a crowbar, a darning needle for the holding bar, and a bottle cap that you fancy to use as a catch. But these pieces, even though they have some vague similarity to the pieces of a working mousetrap, in fact are not matched to each other and couldn’t form a functioning mousetrap without extensive modification. All the while the modification was going on, they would be unable to work as a mousetrap. The fact that they were used in other roles (as a crowbar, in a clock, etc.) does not help them to be part of a mousetrap. As a matter of fact, their previous functions make them ill-suited for virtually any new role as part of a complex system.

Darwin’s Black Box, page 66.

The reason why a separate function for the individual parts does not solve the problem of IC is because IC is concerned with the function of the system:
By irreducibly complex I mean a single system which is composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, and where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning.

Darwin’s Black Box, page 39.

The system can have its own function, different from any of the parts. Any individual function of a part does not explain the separate function of the system.

Miller applies his crackerjack reasoning not only to the mousetrap, but also to the bacterial flagellum--the extremely sophisticated, ultra complex biological outboard motor that bacteria use to swim, which I had discussed in Darwin’s Black Box and which has becoming something of a poster child for intelligent design. No wonder, since anyone looking at a drawing of the flagellum immediately apprehends the design. Since the flagellum is such an embarrassment to the Darwinian project, Miller tries to distract attention from its manifest design by pointing out that parts of the structure can have functions other than propulsion. In particular, some parts of the flagellum act as a protein pump, allowing the flagellum to aid in its own construction--a level of complexity that was unsuspected until relatively recently.

Miller’s argument is that since a subset of the proteins of the flagellum can have a function of their own, then the flagellum is not IC and Darwinian evolution could produce it. That’s it! He doesn’t show how natural selection could do so; he doesn’t cite experiments showing that such a thing is possible; he doesn’t give a theoretical model. He just points to the greater-than-expected complexity of the flagellum (which Darwinists did not predict or expect) and declares that Darwinian processes could produce it. This is clearly not a fellow who wants to look into the topic too closely.

In fact, the function of a pump has essentially nothing to do with the function of the system to act as a rotary propulsion device, anymore than the ability of parts of a mousetrap to act as paperweights has to do with the trap function. And the existence of the ability to pump proteins tells us nil about how the rotary propulsion function might come to be in a Darwinian fashion. For example, suppose that the same parts of the flagellum that were unexpectedly discovered to act as a protein pump were instead unexpectedly discovered to be, say, a chemical factory for synthesizing membrane lipids. Would that alternative discovery affect Kenneth Miller’s reasoning at all? Not in the least. His reasoning would still be simply that a part of the flagellum had a separate function. But how would a lipid-making factory explain rotary propulsion? In the same way that protein pumping explains it--it doesn’t explain it at all.

The irreducible complexity of the flagellum remains unaltered and unexplained by any unintelligent process, despite Darwinian smoke-blowing and obscurantism.

I have pointed all this out to Ken Miller on several occasions, most recently at a debate in 2002 at the American Museum of Natural History. But he has not modified his story at all.

As much as some Darwinists might wish, there is no quick fix solution to the problem of irreducible complexity. If they want to show their theory can account for it (good luck!), then they’ll have to do so by relevant experiments and detailed model building--not by wordplay and sleight-of-hand.





Discovery Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public policy think tank headquartered in Seattle and dealing with national and international affairs. For more information, browse Discovery's Web site at: http://www.discovery.org.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; Technical
KEYWORDS: creationuts; crevolist; evolution
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To: <1/1,000,000th%; balrog666; BMCDA; CobaltBlue; Condorman; Dimensio; Doctor Stochastic; ...
Nice post, Ichneumon! I don't know where you get such patience.

Anyway, here's a petard for Mr. LLLICHY:


Petard!

81 posted on 02/19/2004 5:06:55 PM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: Ichneumon
Ichneumon's post #80 on this thread is a simply brilliant combination of scientific erudition and rhetorical skill. Kudos.
82 posted on 02/19/2004 5:21:10 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Ichneumon
Selective amnesia, or intellectual dishonesty?

The creationists vary in every other degree but they all leave you asking this question.

83 posted on 02/19/2004 5:37:09 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Ichneumon
Nice!
84 posted on 02/19/2004 5:41:40 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Ichneumon
[Thunderous applause!]
85 posted on 02/19/2004 6:12:24 PM PST by PatrickHenry (The universe is made for life, therefore ID. Life can't arise naturally, therefore ID.)
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To: Ichneumon
It's clear that you went to a lot of trouble, but not clear that Behe's two statements contradict each other. Your post is lengthy, but incorrect. Here is what you state are contradictory claims....

Claim A: "An irreducibly complex system cannot be produced directly by numerous, successive, slight modifications of a precursor system, because any precursor to an irreducibly complex system that is missing a part is by definition nonfunctional. ... Since natural selection can only choose systems that are already working, then if a biological system cannot be produced gradually it would have to arise as an integrated unit, in one fell swoop, for natural selection to have anything to act on."

Claim B: "The system can have its own function, different from any of the parts. Any individual function of a part does not explain the separate function of the system."

The first quote merely refers to a precursor system that SERVES THE SAME FUNCTION. It does not mean that the parts of a system can't have some function IN ANOTHER SYSTEM. In the article he gives a quote from his original work, "Darwin's Black Box" that refutes the idea he is moving the bar on this.

You can't have a mousetrap that lacks a spring. That is not the same as saying a spring can't be used for other things. All of the parts used for a moustrap could be used for something else, but no precursor MOUSETRAP system could funcion without all of those parts of the system in place.

86 posted on 02/19/2004 6:24:09 PM PST by Ahban
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To: Ahban
It's clear I'm the great white whale to Ichneumon. I smile at that. He deserves no reply so I shall not, but I will remind him, since I am his obsession and he will read this---

"I have no intention of wasting my time researching your little feud. If someone asks you to stop posting to him, stop posting. This is not complicated." --- Jim Robinson

87 posted on 02/19/2004 6:48:44 PM PST by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: Ahban
You can't have a mousetrap that lacks a spring.

Many animal traps use a gravity-powered door. A spring can be used for other things, and there are other ways to catch a mouse.

88 posted on 02/19/2004 6:50:40 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: AndrewC
Come off it. You can tell someone to stop posting to you, but if you publish opinions on a public forum you cannot expect that your opinions will not be analyzed.
89 posted on 02/19/2004 6:56:47 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
Give a creo a "Get Out of Jail Free" card and it will be used until the edges are as frayed and soft as cotton.
90 posted on 02/19/2004 7:04:59 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: js1138
Come off it. You can tell someone to stop posting to you, but if you publish opinions on a public forum you cannot expect that your opinions will not be analyzed.

Come off what? I told a poster who was itching for a confrontation to lay off. He refused to do so. It finally took Jim Robinson himself to relay the easily understood request and achieve the cooperation of that person. Has that person been denied anything apart from addressing me directly. Has his posting been any less? I've not stopped him from posting what he likes to others. I merely commented that I am evidently an obsession to him since I have not addressed him and he has entered into the discussions I have had with others. By the way, is the question I posed to you so difficult to answer?

91 posted on 02/19/2004 7:07:15 PM PST by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: js1138
How would you do original ID research?

You just kinda sit around at your desk muttering about "Darwinists" under your breath.

92 posted on 02/19/2004 7:10:58 PM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: AndrewC

93 posted on 02/19/2004 7:13:23 PM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: AndrewC
If you want private conversations, take it to freepmail. This is a forum. If you post ideas they will be subject to criticism. If you choose not to respond that's your problem. Why are you on a public forum?

As for people being obsesssed with you, why don't you take that as a positive? You are the most articulate poster for your side of the debate. What mystery is there that you would be a target?
94 posted on 02/19/2004 7:13:42 PM PST by js1138
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To: balrog666
Why did you post your baby picture? You were kinda cute, but what happened to you since?

Balrog as he now appears--->


95 posted on 02/19/2004 7:16:42 PM PST by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: Heartlander
I always get a healthy chuckle seeing evolutionists insisting that a round peg fits nicely in a square peg. Evolution doesn't add up and it never will no matter how one tries to contrive the sitution since evidence does not support evolution.
96 posted on 02/19/2004 7:16:59 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: balrog666; Alamo-Girl; PatrickHenry; marron; unspun; logos
More desperate dishonesty from the creationoids.

Well, my very dear balgog666, you are to be congratulated for your early display of sympathetic enthusiasm for the civilized and well-reasoned exchange of ideas -- this naturally human (and verifiably historical) endeavor designed to advance knowledge and understanding for public and private gain.

Of course I'm sure you already know that, in truth, you turned this thread into an Animal-House-style "food fight" right at Reply #2. Or at least made a sincere attempt.

I'm just catching up, and maybe never will. So don't know whether your wish came true or not.

97 posted on 02/19/2004 7:17:45 PM PST by betty boop (God used beautiful mathematics in creating the world. -- Paul Dirac)
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To: js1138
As for people being obsesssed with you, why don't you take that as a positive?

You must have difficulty recognizing patronizing and belittling posts.

98 posted on 02/19/2004 7:19:30 PM PST by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: VadeRetro
My favorite crumedgeon-opponent! How are you guy? I hope your organs are not still making your life a burden? Just live another ten years, and we will get a fix for just about anything- except hard headedness!

All your point in the last post are true, but not terribly relevant to the discussion. A mousetrap that is NOT IC can be imagined, but that is not what we have meant by "mousetrap" on this thread. I use the term according to standard useage for a specific mousetrap type, not a guy standing over a mousehole with a large cinder block or any other abstraction!
99 posted on 02/19/2004 7:27:45 PM PST by Ahban
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To: AndrewC
I'll call you Ishmael! Personal insult, as usual, seems to be the evos strongest "argument".
100 posted on 02/19/2004 7:29:20 PM PST by Ahban
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