Posted on 02/17/2004 4:09:33 PM PST by ambrose
Golden Retriever Saves Hikers From Mountain Lion Friendly 'Stanley' Charges Until Mountain Lion Climbs Up Tree
POSTED: 8:08 AM MST February 5, 2004
UPDATED: 8:56 AM MST February 5, 2004
LYONS, Colo. -- A trusty golden retriever named Stanley is being hailed a hero after saving his owner and her friend from a mountain lion.
The two women were hiking with their dogs off Highway 7 in Lyons last week when a mountain lion approached. They had noticed tracks in the area but they thought the tracks were old until Betsy Burton spotted an animal out of the corner of her eye.
"I turned to my left and he was right there. About 4 to 6 feet, kind of to the left of me, but behind me. It was this absolutely gorgeous mountain lion," Burton said. "At first I really didn't get it. I saw him and I thought, 'How beautiful.'"
Then the lion spotted Burton and Cindy Kaylan. They say it crouched down and began to growl.
"The lion just kept staring at Betsy and it just seemed like he was going to come after her," Kaylan said. "I felt like running but I knew that wasn't the right thing to do."
Burton then yelled at Kaylan to find a big branch and hold it above her head to make her appear larger.
"You know, that made me act big. We just kept screaming," said Kaylan, who owns Stanley.
"Then all of a sudden Stanley just charged at him, and the mountain lion ran up a tree about 30 feet away," Kaylan said.
They could hear the lion roaring at the dog from the tree.
"About a minute later Stanley came (back). We thought Stanley would be dead or completely bloody but Stanley was fine," Burton said. "What is good about that is Stanley, being as brave as he is, gave us time to do what we're suppose to do."
The Department of Wildlife is monitoring the area. It estimates that the mountain lion the woman confronted weighs about 150 pounds.
A local wildlife expert recommends anyone who wants to hike in mountain lion territory to carry bear Mace. It sprays up to 30 feet and scares the lions long enough for a person to get away.
As I said, you are lying Delphinium. It is you who posted an article quoting Ted Turners group not me. You are using Ted Turner's site as a source. And now you are telling us that you don't accept Ted Turner type sources. You are, in essence, saying that you don't accept your own sources. And the sources I posted are NOT Ted Turner type sources. They, unlike your extremist websites, are good sources.
"I consider any group that wants to put the rights of wolves, and other endangered species above those of humans to be left leaning.
Perhaps you would be well served to learn more about what is the left is and what the right is. Your definition is not accurate. What may be accurate is to say that anyone who disagrees with your every thought is going to be accused of being left leaning. Wouldn't you say?
I repeat it is not your place to decide which species exist and which don't. Extremism is a problem. And those who would exterminate a species over money should not be taken seriously, imo. It is sad to see you choose to be so dishonorable as to exagerate and try to use fear and hysteria to get your way.
| Idaho Rancher Cries Wolf - Canadian Gray Wolves Slaughter Sheep on Killing and Maiming Spree October 2, 2003 Contact: Nancy Bloomer 208-866-7117 Press Conference to be held October 2, 2003, 1st Floor Capitol Building, Boise, Idaho, 10:00am Long time sheep rancher, Mick Carlson, owns a sheep ranch near Riggins, Idaho, and has grazing permits near Burgdorf, Idaho, north of McCall. Early morning on September 14, 2003, he had over 100 sheep missing. Since then, 55 have been found dead and 13-15 badly maimed by Canadian Gray Wolves in a killing frenzy. Video will be shown of the attack area. The estimated loss of the sheep is over $10,000. http://www.aginfo.com/reportView.cfm?recordid=89 ===== The Burgdorf Massacre: On a night in mid-September On a night in mid-September 2003, in the Payette National Forest, on a ridge off Forest Road 325 near Burgdorf, Idaho, a pack of wolves attacked a herd of sheep and killed at least 55 of them, and another 30 are reported as missing. Mick Carlson, owner of Carlson Livestock, with his granddaughter Emily and one of his sheep herders, met with myself and several members of the Idaho Anti-Wolf Coalition and led us over dirt roads barely more than a rough fire trail to the scene of the massacre. Once devastated by forest fire years ago, it required a 20-minute hike over rough terrain and dead fall to get up the side of the ridge to the scene. Long before we got close, there was an overbearing stench of death. As we approached the first kills, there was a flurry of activity as the scavenging birds fled a few yards away to another batch of carcasses, the cacophony was tremendous as the birds fought over the scraps. The killings had occurred 5 days before and the carcasses have since been subjected to the elements, birds, a few coyotes, a bear or two and legions of insects. Neither the odor nor the visuals were tolerable for long. I had come with 10 rolls of 35mm film and 15 disks for the digital camera, but I only took a single roll and 3 disks worth of photos, for the carnage was just too disturbing, and I abandoned my plan to photograph each and every one of them in their silent death masks, now crawling with maggots and flies. Initially, I had planned to help treat this for what it was, a crime scene. My intent was to mark each corpse with my GPS unit, and use yellow caution tape around each to visually indicate the extent of the killing field when photographed from the adjacent ridge, however, the wooded area was too thick and I had brought far too few rolls of tape. A light snow a couple nights before melted the hundreds of wolf tracks, degrading them so much as to render them useless for making plaster casts, but not so much that a layman could not identify what creature made them. The killing field was probably 1,000 yards long and a few hundred yards wide. The wolves chased the herd downhill killing as it went until the remaining hapless creatures reached the creek at the bottom of the canyon. I did not go all the way down, I did not, as I had wanted to do, photograph each and every carcass, for I had had quite enough in the first three or four hundred yards. As an avid hunter, I am not squeamish, but it was pointless, each victim looked much like the last, attacked at the hindquarter, abdomen and on the shoulder near the throat. Most never eaten, just killed and left. The wolves had eaten just a couple so now it was to be the work of the scavengers to clean up the mess. Some of the struggles must have been epic, hundreds of tufts of wool littered the track from the point of attack to the final resting place, usually some 20-odd feet or so. The earth disturbed by cloven hoofs and clawed paws bore silent testimony to the violence of the attacks. The sheepherder named Chuck told me that on the day after the attacks were discovered, he, while searching for the missing sheep, blundered into an area where the over-full marauders had lain down in the sun to nap. Catching his scent, they awoke and arose, he wanted to flee, for he knew these were the killers, but he also knew that if he did run, the wolves may well add him to the menu. He backed away slowly, while still facing them. We wore gloves and dust masks (to keep the flies out of our mouths) but still needed to shower for an hour after getting home, the scene left one with a sickly, sticky feeling of something filthy dirty, like having just toured a WW-II concentration camp death-house. Government trappers killed one wolf the next day and trapped another (he radio-collared and released it -- hopefully it will lead him to the rest of the pack, believed to be much larger than what the sheepherder saw) he is still working the area, searching for surviving sheep and still counting the dead. The photos he took and those Mr. Carlson took immediately after the slaughter, which show how few were fed on, have yet to be developed and the Idaho Anti-Wolf Coalition hopes to present them in a press conference to be held in a week or so. Some of the sheep that had survived the slaughter died a few days later of the bite wounds. Upon investigating this event, it was learned that several other livestock companies in the region had suffered even greater losses this year, but the media was largely silent on these, The Spokesman-Review being the only media of any note that even bothered to write anything, and at that just a small article earlier this summer. The killings had been presaged by the killing, and partial devouring of a herd dog in early spring. Later, in the Nez Perce National Forest wolves killed 20, and later 30 of Carlson's sheep. This slaughter however, is sure to bring national attention to the plight of livestock companies that suffer losses of approximately $100 per sheep. It was explained that the private conservation fund that had been compensating ranchers was now running out of funds. There used to be wolves in Idaho, the ones that they never could get rid of due to the rough terrain, even with some 100 years of bounty hunting. But in 1995, the Federal Government, in eager concert with environmentalist movements, has brought in the Canadian Gray Wolves and the state of Idaho is beginning to suffer for it. According to "Of Wolves And Men" by Barry Holstun Lopez (Charles Scribner's Sons, NY, 1978), Lopez notes that Taxonomist Edward Goldman identified 23 subspecies of wolf in North America. This may lend credence to the Anti-Wolf Coalition's claim that the wolf that has long roamed Idaho was likely Canus Lupus Irremotus (Northern Rocky Mountain Wolf) rather than the Canadian Gray Wolf that the Federal Government imported into Wyoming and Idaho over protests of the governments and peoples of those states. Many Idaho elk hunters have noted increased difficulty in successful hunts, and may rightfully be blaming the wolf. Five years ago, Idaho Hunting Zone 28 had 500 cow elk tags available, four years ago there were 400, and so on, reduced by 100 each year until now there are no cow tags anymore. The viable cow-calf ratio for a herd of elk to be viable is believed to be 25 to 29 calves per 100 cows. In that area, zone 28, observers report just 3 to 6 per 100. Lopez's book notes that: "In 1973, well-meaning people in New York and Los Angeles urged that the Eastern Timber Wolf should be classified an endangered species. The law was passed and the same people scoffed when Minnesota complained that it had too many Eastern Timber Wolves. Afforded full federal protection, the Minnesota wolf population grew larger and larger and without simultaneous control on the number of human deer hunters, the wolf's primary food source declined and many wolves died of starvation." The implication is that we ought sacrifice man's right to hunt for the wolf's. Something has got to give in order to achieve balance, and those who govern such matters are more likely to regulate away the hunter's rights, as they are fewer in number than the well-meaning city-folk who command a greater share of the body politic. The danger is that some government bureaucrats with designs may seek to exploit the situation in order to expand their own power and control. The elk and the deer and the sheep will be but pawns in the greater picture, they will suffer more than man, for earlier in his book's introduction, Lopez states: "...wolves do not kill just the old, the weak and the injured. They also kill animals in the prime of health. And they don't always kill just what they need; they sometimes kill in excess. No one-...-knows why wolves do what they do." Intent to Diminish (Idaho Statesman re-titled this article 'Editorial unfairly demonizes foes of wolf reintroduction' when published August 20, 2003) By T. Allen Hoover Wednesday's editorial "Bounty hunting in court" is "Yellow Journalism." To use "lynch mob" as the description of those seeking to file a class-action lawsuit to remove the Canadian Gray Wolf from Idaho is an intellectually dishonest misnomer. The Oxford Dictionary defines "lynch" (of a mob) to put (a person) to death without a legal trial, so clearly then, this group cannot be called such, for it exactly a trial they seek. Of this the editors may be keenly aware, preferring to play the wordsmith to demonize, and to enhance and promote that social dementia known as "Political Correctness" (a concept coined by Chinese Dictator Mao). The legal profession appears impugned (or perhaps signaled) alluding [that] an attorney who dares to take the case would be a "bounty hunter," after "Idaho Wolves." Idaho Wolves? The group wants to sue to remove Canadian Gray Wolves. Canadian wolves imported into Idaho do not get naturalized by the INS, nor do their offspring automatically become "citizens" just as African Elephants do not bear American Elephant young. Are we to rename the West Nile Virus as the West Mississippi Virus? Mislabeling in pharmaceuticals or foods is a crime, and certainly ought to be in a highly influential media. Alas, here we see the flaw of the 1st amendment. "Tweaking" the facts is, unfortunately, protected speech. An "intent to diminish" is displayed by the liberal automatic presumption of superiority in "It's ridiculous, based on some the-west-ain't-big-enough-for-the-both-of-us assumption that doesn't square with reality." This seeks to put words in their mouths, portray the group in a pseudo-macho light and paint them with colors they are not. The editorial claims they want to return to the "bad old days" when the government tried to manipulate the West, but is not the current wolf effort also a government manipulation? Why has hunting zone 28 seen cow tags drop from 500 just 5 years ago to 0 this year? Reduced sales of non-resident licenses and tags negatively affect Idaho's economy. If this predator population is to be made viable here in Idaho, ought not other life-forms also be allowed to become viable in their own natural habitats? Should the government reintroduce endangered Polio or other life forms into urban populations? If efforts to eradicate smallpox and anthrax were good ideas, and those diseases are now considered weapons of mass destruction, we must rethink the wolf reintroduction. Either we reintroduce harmful species and live with it, or we tightly control species that cause us harm. The government tried to eradicate the Idaho wolf, but, despite a century of efforts, Idaho wolves survived. This paper's Pete Zimowski wrote an article on a wolf attack back in 1978, nearly two decades before the reintroduction, and in another article Fish & Game officer John Gahl noted that where there is one, there are more. The Canadian and Idaho wolves appear to differ and may be separate subspecies, just as certain Idaho species of snails and fish considered separate species. Neither the government nor the wolf recovery participants really know how many wolves there are, official claims say there are less than 300. As humans tend to act in their own best self-interest, we are not likely to see any internal discord over the actual number, for whistle-blowers and dissenters might lose their precious pension. Does the government ever make mistakes? Managerial decisions gave us two shuttle disasters, and discounted an alert FBI agent's warnings about those taking flight lessons months before 9-11, and the list goes on. The wolf experiment is a mistake in progress. T. Allen Hoover has a Bachelor of Science Degree in Political Science, Public Law and Political Philosophy from Boise State University. Copyright 2003 by the Author, T. Allen Hoover. Reproduction by any means prohibited without the written permission of the author. All rights reserved. By T. Allen Hoover http://www.natureswolves.com/livestock/burgdorf.htm (There are many photos at the above website address.) Additional recommended reading (the other side, which views domestic livestock and family pets -- and indeed, even the families themselves -- as being 'in the way' of rewilding the planet): |
Even so, these dogs are so laid back, it's funny.
If you call that nuts, well that's your opinion.
The web sites you have referred to are extremist and not necessarily accurate. That's the sad nature of what I see from the wolf haters. Exageration and hysteria.
The Canadian wolf *is* the Rocky Mountain wolf. Same wolf. The Grey wolf. Wolves did not kill off everything in site before the West was settled and the whole argument that wolves destroy all life is bogus.
I think that this is about money. Some people want to kill just for sport -- these are the same folks (probably) who condemn wolves for not eating everything they kill. [Even though wolf kills feed a lot of animals]. But these people who think it is just terrible that a wolf might kill for sport are ready to exterminate wolves because they want to be the ones killing for sport. Doesn't that about sum it up?
FWIW, Under the general heading of "Taking better care of yourself and your dogs" I would include some time for target practice. I hike where there are black bears (and once in a while some two-legged predators) and I never hike without a .357 mag.
"Mr. Cyr,
"I will try to answer your questions for you, though you may obtain much of this info from our website at:
http://www2.state.id.us/fishgame/info/programsinfo/wolves/wolf.htm.
"How many wolves are in Idaho - collard and un-collard - total? The tribe has estimated about 380 wolves so far this year in idaho.
"How many collard wolves are there in the state? They have about 22 known packs that are radio collared in Idaho.
"How many are females? See tribal website
How many are males? See tribal website
"What are the numbers for the animals taken: elk, deer, lion, bear? Don't know. However, based on research in Idaho, MT and Yellowstone, wolves will eat approximately 14-18 elk/wolf/year. Mostly eat elk in the studies in Idaho, lots of deer in Montana. Probably depends upon the prey in the area they set up there pack.
"What impact has the wolf had on herds? To date we have been unable to determine any impact on our elk herds or deer populations. Where we have been monitoring our elk populations specifically looking for impacts of wolves in Unit 28, we have found that the fires and habitat conditions caused the elk calf ratios to change since 1995. The calf:cow ratios declined in there until last winter, 2 years following a major fire. The calf cow ratios increased to 36 calves:100 cows, right in the middle of wolf pack activity. This suggests that there is much that influences elk populations and wolves are only one of them, and not the biggest factor.
"Spring kill numbers (birthing)? Most of wolf predation on elk in the study around Salmon, and in Yellowstone, indicate that about 50% of their prey is young of year, and 35% is old, the rest is varying age and some of questionable health.
"Summer kill numbers (sport)? Wolves are required to kill to survive all year long. The late summer is the toughest time for them because game is in the best condition of the year, calves are now able to run with adults. At this time they tend to hunt alternate prey as well. Small mammals, beavers, even fish, and also tend to get into livestock problems. Pups are just learning to hunt but can't kill on their own. the adults have more mouths to feed. We have not been able to determine that wolves will kill for sport alone. The surplus killing reported usually involves animals having been scared off of carcasses. It is a very rare occurrence in the research areas. Every time a wolf tries to kill an animal as big as eg. elk or moose, many times larger than them, they put themselves at risk of being injured or killed. That is why they tend to figure out the easiest animal to kill, and if they can't find one they move on. Their home ranges in Idaho are about 350 square miles, and pack size is about 5 animals average. They have to travel alot to maintain their pack territories and find available and weakened game (Idaho avereages about 2 elk/square mile).
"Fall kill numbers (sport) Same answer, except that wolves can now find wounded elk and deer from hunter losses, which in Idaho is about 5-10% of legally taken elk and deer, or approximately 1-2,000 elk/year and about 5,000 deer per year that are wounded and not retreived, about what wolves would kill on their own if they couldn't find carcasses. For a couple months of the year anyway, they don't have to kill much at all. They can mostly just scavenge.
"Winter kill numbers (survival)? late winter, early spring is the easiest time for wolves to kill elk and deer. They are in the poorest condition at that time. In yellowstone, March and April were the 2 highest predation months.
"Where are the wolf packs located? Wolves are now well distributed across Idaho. They have not established themselves very well on private land far from national forests, or out in the desert areas. However, they are most densely located in the Clearwater Region and McCall Subregion and around Salmon.
"The impacts of wolves on our big game populations has been greatly exagerated so far. Although approximately 3-400 wolves may currently live in Idaho, their combined impact on elk populations is approximately 4-5000 a year. Each year the elk population increases with a birthing pulse, and decreases dependent upon everything else. We have found that our elk populations in Idaho appear to be near their highest ever recorded. Our hunter success varies between 20-25% on average, and mostly dependent upon weather conditions. Wolves apparently have a very big impact on hunter attitudes, but they shouldn't be changing the number of elk available for harvest yet.
"We do hope to be able to start managing wolves as a big game animal once they are delisted. At that time, we hope to be able to implement sport hunting, and control some of the burgeoning populations where they may be impacting game herds. Simply put, when hunters see a wolf track on an elk track, or wolf tracks and no elk tracks, they immediately think the worse. Wolves may move elk into the timber, or elk may be using habitat a little differently. However, it is a grave mistake to think that elk are being eliminated by wolves. Unlike domesticated cattle and sheep, elk and deer know how to avoid getting eaten. All hunters have to do is start to figure out how to hunt when wolves are around, and they will be able to do as well as ever.... that still means that 75% of hunters will not kill an elk this year. I hope they don't all blame wolves. Thank you for your comments and questions."
Steve Nadeau
Staff Biologist
Idaho Dept. Fish and Game
600 S. Walnut, Box 25
Boise, ID 83707
Phone: 208-334-2920
That quote is from one of the sites you linked to and the info has already been debunked right on this thread.
Do you have a link that says that wolves can leap tall buildings in a single bound? :-) Do you have a link that says that humanity has barely survived the existence of wolves and if we don't exterminate them quick, all life on this planet is doomed? :-)
2) The statement was meant to be funny, you might note the ;-) wink at the end of my sentence.
3) Try a little humor in your life, it might help.
4) I have had yellow Labs for years and been around most every kind of bird dog there is. Retrievers as a group are high strung and skittish. Goldens are some of the worst. Someone must have luck with them as there are lots of them out there. I will however take a Lab every time.
You obviously haven't read my posts here. Whether you laugh at many of them, I get a kick out of my frequent attempts at humor.
BTW, the smiley in your first post seemed to be directed at the part about the mountain lion, not the part about Goldens. It didn't seem like you were joking about your assessment of Goldens, and that is confirmed by your subsequent comments to the several posters who took you to task for those comments about Goldens.
I used to have a black Lab mix that was the sweetest dog I've ever had. Her mother was a black Lab, and we used to joke that her father was a short brown traveling salesman.
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