***Ketchup Boy Only Served For FOUR MONTHS***

Stardate: 0402.17

[The Wizard]

We know the media shills for the democrats, but it's about time some one of the VERY FEW honest media get on this point and two others:

We want to know about those famous wounds that he takes credit for......(I'm not saying I would want them, but he is making big claims about his service) but we have a right to see the records.

All my friends had to spend 12 months in Nam....why did ketchup boy only serve 4 months and then come home and fight the war and call those poor guys without deferments baby killers and war criminals

I am telling you my friends, more is coming about what really happened in kerry's war experience, and it won't be a pretty thing to see.

[antiRepublicrat]

Why do you think they were?

Because I read it in a detailed history of the F-102 that went all the way down to telling the disposition of the various serial numbers.

[Cuttnhorse]

Swift Boat mission was multiple, including coastal interdiction, which tended to bring us very close to shore, especially at night. We also provided illumination support with the 81 mm mortar on board. Many boats patroled up rivers and escorted ships up the Saigon river. Many were sunk doing this.

Another mission was transporting special ops groups and placing them ashore and recovering them, including Navy SEALs.

The boats had an almost 6-foot draft which made them a little problematic in shallow water, especially during low tide. Boats ran aground often.

They were good boats, relatively fast and fairly well armed.

[Cuttnhorse]

Hi Mo doll,

As I recall, the last thing we wanted to do was beach the darn things. They had such a deep draft they were always running aground in brown water. Plus, they were not armoured...3/8" aluminum hull was all. Didn't take much of a round to pass through through both bulkheads.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Please continue:

Remember, the mission changed over time, and Kerry's 90 days of service, and months of training beforehand, were predicated on what the conditions BEFORE he arrived back in Vietnam.

How many were aboard? What ranks? When did Swift boats go in-shore, as opposed to Market Time off-shore duty? How long was training at Mare Island?

What was normal tour-of-duty? How could Kerry get credit for duty "on a PBR" if he was trained as OIC for Swift boats (PCF) and the PBR were only driven by enlisted?

Did somebody (or some writer) simply make a mistake crediting him with "PBR" assignments he didn't actually go on?

How many were wounded several times? (Wounded seriously, that is.) How many left early? How many got Silver Stars?

[JDoutrider]

The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch. The twin .50s gunner fired at the Viet Cong. He said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the boat and dashed in to administer a "coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong. Kerry returned with the B-40 rocket and launcher. Kerry was given a Silver Star for his actions.

Hmmm...not to rain on ketchup boys parade...but I have seen what a .50 cal does to the human body...and it's really a wonder that VC could "dart behind a hootch"...For that matter, if the gunner who laid in 50 more rounds through the hootch, my money says he nailed the the chap a few times more, and all ketchup boy found was a whole lot of hamburger left.

Administering a "coup de grace" was probably not needed, indeed it is possibly a court martial offence.

If it were just one VC, why wasn't he captured for interrogation?

Why would a swift boat captain endanger his crew/boat by hot insertion into an ambush killing zone?

When did the Navy decree that commanding officers leave the ship and chase down bad guys instead of sending an enlisted gunner?

Sorry, this old grunt can't buy this story...

A Silver Star? He should have been given latrine duty for his stupidity...

JD

[Robert A Cook PE]

We can criticize an exaggerating lair who is deliberately manipulating a gullible, lying press into shamelessly pandering his few weeks of air-conditioned service into a stellar bedazzled career lasting years.

Yes. We can. Anybody can.

No, what I won't do is claim to say what I'd do under fire. But I do know Kerry vclaims to be shooting civilians and wounded VC when HE was under fire.

Which, now, under the democrat Senate, is cause for arrest and court-martial.

[Cuttnhorse]

I'm proud to see my name listed on boats 10, 45, and 51. I still keep track of several boatmates who served with me.

My beef with Kerry isn't over his service in Nam...it is over what he did when he came home. He can have his bogus purple hearts and silver star...if he thinks he earned them, fine.

My beef is with what he did when he returned home and for protesting the war while good men were fighting and dying over there is treasonous. I didn't think it possible, but I actually dispise Kerry even more than I do Clintoon, and I did not think this possible.

He is a disgrace to the uniform he wore and all those good shipmates who served with him.

[Polybius]

He volunteered for Swift boats, which were cruising the coast of Viet Nam - fairly safe......jackbill

Um those boats were some of the most dangerouns assignments in 'nam. You were a sitting duck, open target, going up and down rivers full of snipers. Saying that his assignment was safe is re-writing history.....Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh

Jackbill is not re-writing history. He said that Kerry volunteered for a safe assignment and that is exactly what Kerry volunteered for........or so he thought.

It would have been very courageous if Kery had know that swift boats were going to be used to patrol the rivers. However, that mission mission did not come about until after Kerry transferred to swift boats.

Zumwalt changed the mission of the swift boats after Kerry volunteered for them.

What did Kerry expect?

In his own word:

Boston Globe, 6/16/2003: ........"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."......... But two weeks after he arrived in Vietnam, the swift boat mission changed -- and Kerry went from having one of the safest assignments in the escalating conflict to one of the most dangerous.

Ooops.

So, now what? Well, Kerry needed a way to get out of combat as soon as possible. He racked up three Purple Hearts for injuries that cost him a combined grand total of two days in Sick Bay then used the "three Purple Hearts" excuse to ask for and get granted an early termination of his combat tour after serving only four months.

Boston Globe, 6/16/2003: .........Along with Kerry's unquestionable and repeated bravery, he also took an action that has received far less notice: He requested and was granted a transfer out of Vietnam six months before his combat tour was slated to end on the grounds that he had earned three Purple Hearts. None of his wounds was disabling; he said one cost him two days of service and the other two did not lead to any absence. .........The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer.

There is no doubt that Kerry served in combat. However, he did not willingly volunteer for combat and, once in combat, Kerry sea-lawyered himself out of combat as fast as he could for minimal injuries.

[Cuttnhorse]

I'll say it juuuust one more time.

The first PCF was sunk by a remotely detonated mine, in the An Thoi area, where Kerry first served. PCF 4 sank immediately with the loss of 4 of her 6-man crew, with the rest badly injured. I was there and pulled bodies out of the water in Feb. 1966....long before Kerry decided to volunteer. By the time Kerry arrived, Swift boats were getting shot up pretty regularly and most volunteers knew there was a very good chance of buying it.

The boats were 50-feet in length and had a 6-man crew, consisting of an OIC, normally a Lt.Jg or rarely an ensign, and a radio man, a gunners mate, an engine man, a bosuns mate and a seaman.

They had two GM V-12 turbo-charged diesel marine engines and went about 22 knots per hour, but also had a 6-foot draft, which got us into trouble a lot. We had a twin .50 cal mount over the pilot house and an over-under combination .50-cal, .81 mm mortar on the fantail. The mortar was mounted on a pedestal mount and could be trained and elevated...rounds were dropped down the muzzle but could be fired by a trigger...kind of like a little cannon.

They were good boats.

[The Wizard]

I'm an American and I'll criticize any one I want....you don't need to jump off a cliff to have an opinion it ain't good.

[Cuttnhorse]

Oh, I arrived in country in Dec. 1965 and we were patrolling in water shallow enough to run aground. When PCF 4 sank, the pilot house and part of the cabin was above water...again, in Feb. of 1966.

[templar]

I'm an American and I'll criticize any one I want....you don't need to jump off a cliff to have an opinion it ain't good.

I'm a VietNam veteran. Your type has been criticizing me (and other combat veterans) for 34 years now. I'm getting really tired of it. BTW, I don't have to have been a drug crazed mentally ill hippy to have a highly negative opinion of those who were: Particularly since they 'greeted' me with scorn and rejection (admittedly along with the rest of my country) when I came home. And continue to do so.

[thesummerwind]

rightamundo!!!!!!!!!

[Cuttnhorse]

I believe I spent time on this one too...I've got a million peeektures in storage.
This brings back memories long forgotten.

[antiRepublicrat]

However, he did not willingly volunteer for combat

You're going to hold that against him? SGT York didn't want to go either, and coincidentally he also spent only about four months in harm's way.

[Mo1]

As I recall, the last thing we wanted to do was beach the darn things. They had such a deep draft they were always running aground in brown water. Plus, they were not armoured...3/8" aluminum hull was all. Didn't take much of a round to pass through through both bulkheads.

Thanks Horsie .. when I read that part of his story it didn't sound like a smart thing to do and pretty dangerous .. but then, I wasn't there so it's hard for me to understand all that went on

[Mo1]

My beef is with what he did when he returned home and for protesting the war while good men were fighting and dying over there is treasonous

That and his voting record while in elected office

[Polybius]

However, he did not willingly volunteer for combat

You're going to hold that against him? SGT York didn't want to go either, and coincidentally he also spent only about four months in harm's way.

I would not ordinarily hold that against him.

However, the Democrat attack dogs and their faithful allies in the news media are holding it against Bush with Kerry coyly letting the Bush-bashing proceed.

Check out this week's issue of Newsweek when it hits your newstand. You will get to read all about "their choices".

Bush = Cowardly choice.

Kerry = Courageous choice.

[antiRepublicrat]

Bush = Cowardly choice. Kerry = Courageous choice.

Personally, I think that you get some credit as long as you didn't run to Canada. People contributed to varying degrees in the military, from cushy desk assignments in the Army national guard through volunteering for the toughest, deadliest missions deep in the jungle. Either way they served, period.

I'll have more respect for the latter, but I will not deride the former's contribution either.

[The Wizard]

no offense idiot but "Your Type" how would you know what my type is.....have we ever met.....ever?

Have you ever spoken to me.....

Are you assuming from my post that I didn't support my firends that went....do you care...are you a democrat who doesn't need or care about facts???