[Hon]

[Hon]

This was posted by Baynative on another thread, but I believe it is material gleaned from some of the reviews of Mark Lane's book:

"Kerry relied upon phonies and wannabes for support. His prominence has allowed current phonies and wannabes to continue the unsubstantiated allegations made all those years ago and which Kerry appears to condone even today. For example:

Elton Mazione, claiming Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) credentials, Kerry's original organization, along with his friends, John Laboon, Eddie Swetz, and Kenneth Van Lesser. They claimed to kill children and remove body parts as part of the notorious Phoenix program. They were neither in Phoenix nor in Vietnam.

Kerry's VVAW leader friend from 1971, Al Hubbard, lied about being an officer, Vietnam Veteran, and sustaining war injuries. Michael Harbert, another VVAW crony of Kerry, lied about his Vietnam service.

Frank Dux: He charged many recognizable Vietnam vets with using techniques bordering on war crimes. Dux was a fraud and non Vietnam Veteran.

Yoshia K. Chee claimed we in Vietnam routinely resorted to the most hideous forms of torture, threw people out of helicopters, and decapitated prisoners. He was a phony.

Mike Beamon, an alleged SEAL and Phoenix assassin, was never in the military.

The Senator's own VVAW and similar groups relied upon people like: K. Barton Osborn, a Vietnam veteran and testifier of atrocities to Congress. He told of prisoners being thrown out of helicopters, a woman starved to death, a prisoner being killed by a six inch dowel pushed through his ear. Osborn was not in Phoenix, refused to name names, and provided no documentation.

Lieutenants Francis Reitemeyer and Michael J. Cohn. Both sought conscientious objector status because of Phoenix. Reitemeyer testified to being assigned to Phoenix as an adviser and maintained a kill quota of fifty bodies a month. They became famous as My Lai hit the news. Neither served in Vietnam, in Phoenix, or had any first hand information. Reitemeyer later denied receiving any assassination training."

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1065523/posts

[areafiftyone]

Excellent Find!!

[fella]

Who funded the veterans against the war and the winter soldiers?

[Ben Bolt]

You wanted some more data on the Frenchman I think ?

[sirshackleton]

A reader on the National Review blog asked the right question: When is someone going to ask Kerry if, should he be elected President, he'll prosecute those he accused during the Winter Soldier Investigation of war crimes?

[centurion316]

for future reference

[js1138]

I have finally figure out Kerry. I haven't seen this interpretation posted anywhere, so It might or might not be original with me.

Kerry's war service and his anti-war service seem to have been calculated, even planned in advance, to support a political career. He gets the benefit of being a combat veteran (with a lot less risk than being in the infantry or cav) plus, he gets the political benefit of being anti-war.

He's a man for all seasons, just like clinton.

[GOPJ]

Under "Requests" there's a photo of Kerry with Jane Fonda. You might want to add it to this thread.

[GOPJ]

Under "Requests" there's a photo of Kerry with Jane Fonda. You might want to add it to this thread.

[Howlin]

IMO, the "Winter Soldier" issue is going to be the biggest bombshell of this campaign.

Wait until the American public hears the TRUTH about John Kerry and his merry band of liars.

[Howlin]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1065242/posts

[Happy2BMe]

Kerry the F***ing WAR HERO ping!

---

[b4its2late]

Ramsey Clark and John Kerry, huh?

Islam is the best chance the poor of the planet have for any hope of decency in their lives. It is the one revolutionary force that cares about humanity..." - Ramsey Clark

"The Enemy has Friends Within Our Borders"

[Salvation]

What You Don't Know about John Kerry

[Hon]

 

Viet Nam Veterans of America   A Warning to Viet Nam Veterans   What Viet Nam Veteran would not want to belong to an organization called "Viet Nam Veterans of America"? It sounds patriotic, it sounds sympathetic towards VN veterans, it makes one think it is FOR the VN vet. But it's all a lie. 
  
 

Here are some facts. 
 
Six VN Vets met in 1967 while marching in an antiwar demonstration. They started the VVAW (Viet Nam Veterans against the War).

The VVAW pushed the agenda in their anti-war activities that Americans perpetrated atrocities in VietNam. (So if you were called a 'Baby killer', blame the VVAW).

Al Hubbard, Executive Secretary for the VVAW blamed "The crimes against humanity, the war itself..." on America and our effort to keep communism out of America. (Al Hubbard claimed that he was a wounded in Viet Nam Air Force Officer. He was NOT an officer, not wounded, and did NOT serve in Viet Nam.)

Cofounder, Jan Barry stated, "One cannot participate in the Viet Nam War without being at least in complicity in committing war crimes." Barry was NOT a combat vet, but did serve in VN.

One time VVAW member Robert O. Muller, left the VVAW and started the VVA (Viet Nam Veterans of America). Muller, the President of the VVA accepted $500 from Jane Fonda for the organization. Muller stated, "It may seem unconscionable to you. I don't deal with membership. The only function I have with the organization is to raise money."

The president of VVA, Robert Muller, stated on the Donahue show, "Phil, I think Jane Fonda epitomizes what being an American citizen is all about.  It's involvement with what we're doing as a country, not only domestically but around the world. There is a woman who has taken a position that is based on principle and belief. Whether it's right or wrong is obviously for debate. She has gotten into the process, and has made a commitment to be a player. That is patriotism. A lot of Vietnam vets will respect the fact that she took a difficult position and she advocated the truth."

In December 1981, Muller and a delegation from the VVA made a pilgrimage to Hanoi to meet with the Communist Government of Vietnam. Muller laid a wreath on Ho's grave inscribed, "With respect, from the Vietnam Veterans of America."  A fifty-minute documentary titled, "Going Back:Return to Vietnam" ran on public TV. At the tomb of Ho, Muller stated, "You do have an immediate sense of respect, I can tell you that, too. Cannot help but have respect for the man." (Muller made many many anti-American statements while in North Vietnam, including saying America massacred hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese because they refused to give up their freedom.) Muller said, "I consider myself very much a patriotic American." (So does Jane Fonda Mr. Muller).

In 1982 Muller returned to Hanoi for a second trip.

Thomas A. Bird, cofounder of VVA also went to Hanoi. Bird claimed to be a POW from Viet Nam. It's all a lie. He confessed in 1985 that he lied about it, but still maintains a position in the VVA.

Actually the list could go on for a long time. But I decided to present this much to you and by now you should be able to make up your mind to stay away from the VVA (Vietnam Veterans of America).  If you are already a member, get out.

Remember, joining the VVA is stating that Ho Chi Minh is someone you respect. Joining the VVA is agreeing that Jane Fonda "epitomizes what being an American citizen is all about.", and that you "respect that she advocated the truth". Not me, not ever.  Ben Drake

 

 

http://www.marine-family.org/vva/vva.htm

[GailA]

http://www.620wtmj.com/620programs/charliesykes/weblog.asp

As stunning as his charges, Kerry insisted that the barbaric acts of American soldiers “were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.”

As evidence for his sweeping indictment of the American soldier in Vietnam, Kerry cited the testimony from the Winter Soldier Investigation. As Kerry explained: “The term Winter Soldier is a play on words of Thomas Paine's in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriots and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.”

The “Winter Soldier Investigation,” Mackubin Thomas Owens recently wrote in National Review Online, was, in fact “organized by the ‘usual suspects’ among antiwar celebrities such as Jane Fonda, Dick Gregory, and Kennedy-assassination conspiracy theorist, Mark Lane.” Owensis a professor of strategy and force planning at the Naval War College in Newport, R.I. He led a Marine infantry platoon in Vietnam in 1968-1969. He notes that “Kerry's 1971 testimony includes every left-wing cliché about Vietnam and the men who served there.”

Even worse, much of what Kerry said turned out to be demonstrably false.

Owens writes: “In fact, the entire Winter Soldiers Investigation was a lie. It was inspired by Mark Lane's 1970 book entitled Conversations with Americans, which claimed to recount atrocity stories by Vietnam veterans. This book was panned by James Reston Jr. and Neil Sheehan, not exactly known as supporters of the Vietnam War. Sheehan in particular demonstrated that many of Lane's ‘eye witnesses’ either had never served in Vietnam or had not done so in the capacity they claimed….

“When the Naval Investigative Service attempted to interview the so-called witnesses, most refused to cooperate, even after assurances that they would not be questioned about atrocities they may have committed personally. Those that did cooperate never provided details of actual crimes to investigators. The NIS also discovered that some of the most grisly testimony was given by fake witnesses who had appropriated the names of real Vietnam veterans. Guenter Lewy tells the entire study in his book, America in Vietnam.”

http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/vietnamcenter/events/1996_Symposium/96papers/lesson.htm

. Was the American antiwar movement important to Hanoi’s victory? A. It was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us.

Q. [Why] did the Politburo pay attention to these visits? A. These people represented the conscience of America. The conscience of America was part of its war-making capability, and we were turning that power in our favor. America lost because of its democracy; through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize the will to win. While we need not attribute North Vietnam’s victory solely to domestic dissent in the U.S., we need to recognize that such dissent poses some unresolved issues. Clearly in a democracy, the government shouldn’t be able to mold public opinion. Dissent against an unwise or immoral war is a necessary part of democratic society. In some way, however, it must be possible to counter dissent which involves collaboration with the enemy. We must not allow the enemy to intervene in our domestic politics, even under the guise of dissent. However, this issue has yet to be satisfactorily resolved.

http://www.geocities.com/seavet72/AW/ws-kerry.htm

http://www.geocities.com/seavet72/LI/link-1.htm#AWP2-6

[Chong]

I never thought I could LOATHE another human(?) being more than I do the klintoons, until now...

kerry managed to achieve that level of contempt. Wish I could talk to 'it' face to face and drag his sorry excuse for a human being to The Wall and ask him to repeat his false accusations against the Vietnam Veterans.

In my opinion, kerry is worse than the impeached draft dodger, and that's pretty bad.

Thanks for posting this. Good job.
(Bookmarking this thread to read the rest of the story.)