Archaeologists Uncover Ancient Maritime Spice Route Between India, Egypt

Popular Science ^ | 2-8-2004

[blam]

"some point after A.D. 500, when shipping activities mysteriously stopped."

It looks like that prior to 500AD trade (and knowledge) with India was fairly wide spread through-out the Mediterranean. So, why was Colombus looking for a 'sea-route' in 1492?

Saty tuned and I'll tell you.

[blam]

Ping.

[Verginius Rufus]

In Columbus' time Egypt was under Muslim rule, and it wasn't practical for Europeans to travel via Egypt and the Red Sea to get to India. The Portuguese had discovered the route around Africa by 1488, but Columbus thought it would be easier and shorter to sail directly west across the Atlantic...because he thought the world was much smaller than it really is, and didn't know that there was a landmass in the way.

[Servant of the 9]

In Columbus' time Egypt was under Muslim rule, and it wasn't practical for Europeans to travel via Egypt and the Red Sea to get to India. The Portuguese had discovered the route around Africa by 1488, but Columbus thought it would be easier and shorter to sail directly west across the Atlantic...because he thought the world was much smaller than it really is, and didn't know that there was a landmass in the way.

In 1492, the Portugese had exclusive rights to trade with India by sailing Eastward, either around the Cape or by dealing with the islamic Middle East.

Columbus was working for the Spanish who were looking for a rival way to trade with the Indies.

So9

[KellyAdmirer]

The Byzantines lost Egypt in 640 A.D., so cessation of this trade with Europe at that point isn't much of a mystery.

[Chris Talk]

While some may have hoped to get to the East by sailing West, Columbus was not one of them at the time he sailed.

Having been to Greenland and the Norse domains, he suspected that the landmass he had seen as Labrador extended all the way down as Plato had said, being the true "continent" or piecrust, that contained the three-lobed Eur/Asi/Africa world as an island floating in the middle of the pie... This all as would be seen from a spacecraft over Cairo, BTW

It was only after Columbus' first voyage that he, and the Euro world in general, went wild with India and China expectations. Why? They had found "Asiatics," "Indians" in their words... therefore these countries must be near, or connected to, Asia. Before that, Columbus had not expected such: his contract referred only to "certain islands and mainlands in the Western Ocean not now subject to any Christian prince." No mention of Asia.

Had blacks been found, the lands would have been assumed to connect to Africa in the south. Had whites been found, the lands would have been presumed to connect to Europe in the north, near Scandinavia. Had the lands been uninhabited, then maybe their true position would have been more quickly understood; that, after all, is what Columbus EXPECTED to be the case.

Instead, Asiatics were found, in Columbus' opinion. Thus the peoples found are forever "Indians," and the legend that Asia was his original intent, rather than the sudden bonanza hope that entered his head after finding the inhabitants.... was born... And has never fully died.

[Chris Talk]

BTW, no mystery at all about why trade stopped after 500!

What caused it? Muhammad, Muzzies, Muslims, Islam, and all other such words. Violent Arabs and their exorbitant thefts and baksheesheries.

[blam]

"BTW, no mystery at all about why trade stopped after 500!

"What caused it? Muhammad, Muzzies, Muslims, Islam, and all other such words. Violent Arabs and their exorbitant thefts and baksheesheries."

Nah. It was the (worldwide) Dark Ages that began 540AD+-. Many, many people worldwide died.

[John Beresford Tipton]

"So, why was Colombus looking for a 'sea-route' in 1492?"

Wasn't it because the Venetians had a lock on this trade,
and they didn't share toys or play well with others?

[farmfriend]

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List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

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[cyborg]

very interesting... my idea of the spice route was my grandmother coming to America every five years with a suitcase full of curry and pepper.

[Cronos]

I don't think the Portuguese had exclusive rights in the 1400s. That was only crated in the 1500s when the Spanisha nd Portuguese asked the Pope to arbitrate. He drew a line on the globe and said that the Portuguese could control the lands to the east of the line -- that's why Brazil was Portuguese and the Phillipines spanish.

[Cronos]

Actually there's evidence of trade between Sumeria and India from 3000 BC, so trade around the time of the Roman Empire is comparatively recent.

[Cronos]

No mention of Asia.

The concept of "Asia" in the 1500s was still Roman, where Asia referred to present day Turkey only. China was Cathay and India, well, India.

[Cronos]

Instead, Asiatics were found, in Columbus' opinion. Thus the peoples found are forever "Indians," and the legend that Asia was his original intent, rather than the sudden bonanza hope that entered his head after finding the inhabitants.... was born... And has never fully died.

Incorrect. He was looking for India, for trade and for the spices and textiles that Europe so desperately wanted. He saw non-European, non-African complexions and said "hooray, Ive reached India"

[Servant of the 9]

I don't think the Portuguese had exclusive rights in the 1400s. That was only crated in the 1500s when the Spanisha nd Portuguese asked the Pope to arbitrate.

Yep, you're right.
Until the fall of Constantinople in 1452, it was the Venetians who had exclusive control of trade through the Middle East.
At any rate, the Spanish were odd man out, because they were not a unified nation until the marriage of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile in 1469 and the reconquest of Granada in 1492.
The Portugese had been the great explorers of the last half of the 15th century and had grabbed everything the Venetians had lost control of.

So9

[VadeRetro]

There probably was some kind of global cooling darkening event circa 540, but the Genoese monopoly on the Arab spice trade is what had the Portuguese looking for a route around Africa in the late 1400s. The search for the source of the spice would send them around Africa to India and ultimately to a group of islands near Borneo, also to Brazil as an accidental by-product of their constant sailing around Africa.

[Cronos]

The Portugese had been the great explorers of the last half of the 15th century and had grabbed everything the Venetians had lost control of.

THe Portugueses and Spanish had a lot more scruples than the Venetians. Venice built it's city on blood money. They were the ones who diverted the Crusades into attacking Constantinople to rob the riches of Byzantium. These Venetians were the ones who weakend Byzantine, makign it easy prey for hte Turks. they were also instrumental in causing the animostiy between east and west Christendom (can you blame the Eastern Christians who find that hte Franks are as bad, or worse than the muslims?)

[Servant of the 9]

THe Portugueses and Spanish had a lot more scruples than the Venetians.

They were all Democrrats at heart.
A Democrat being someone who, if you don't give him what he wants, will steal it from you.

Think Howard Dean with a sword.

So9

[Little Ray]

Don't forget, he was also looking for the Kingdom of Prester John and a route to attack the Ottoman Empire from behind. One of Columbus' great goals was to free the Holy Land.
Spices and gold were just immediate paybacks for his royal investors.