Ex-atheist describes near-death experience

Standard-Times ^ | 1/31/2004 | LINDA ANDRADE RODRIGUES

[Gunslingr3]

And he wanted that 10% so bad he died in order to get it.

Did you notice that the guy that died didn't take the 10%, it's been those afterwards, acting in his name, that lay that claim.

[lawgirl]

Maybe because the "archetypes" are based on truth?? If there is one heaven it would make sense their stories would all be the same, even cross culturally.

Kind of like if you all got to peek into the same room- just for a minute. Being able to describe it and its contents accurately would LEND credibility, not discredit.

I throw that out as discussion fodder only, so (everyone) don't flame me.

[Gunslingr3]

What a crock! Tell it to Rhoemer, Semelweiss, Planck, or Thomas Kuhn.

I paraphrased incorrectly, but not in a way to alter the truth of the observation, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right, one single experiement can prove me wrong" -Albert Einstein

[Fishrrman]

lasereye writes:
Good point, if for example Hindu's have had the same kind of NDE's. Their conception of God is very different. In fact, I don't think there's is no heaven in Hinduism. I don't think Nirvana is equivalent to heaven, i.e. a distinct place where God is that you (may) go to when you die.

Some years ago, I read "Life After Life" by [I think] Raymond Moody. Probably still have that book around someplace, but not going looking for it now.

In his studies of near-death experiences, one factor Moody noted was the "commonality" of the experiences among the accounts that were relayed to him. This made little difference in _which_ religion the person having the near-death experience believed. It made little difference in the "depth" of the person's faith (i.e., "deeply-religious" vs. "mildly religious"). There was also little difference between those who had religious beliefs, and those who had no religious beliefs at all.

Regardless of the religious or cultural background from which they came, Moody wrote that individuals, in the first moments "after death", all traveled a remarkably "common path".

I would find it easy to reject the significance of near-death experiences, _IF NOT_ for the strange similarity of the recollections.

If the subject interests you, it's probably worth your while to read Moody's book. It's probably still available in paperback.

- John

[lawgirl]

You know, it strikes me what a strange age we live in. Where we have such amazing medicine, and people are told "your life is over- there is nothing we can do"- nothing in THIS day and age, and then someone is just healed with no explanations medically, that should lend proof to the theory of miracles, not take away. Look here- man in all his modern science couldn't fix me, but God did. That is way more convincing than back in Biblical days where simple cleanliness probably would've saved some lives. Interesting.

[Taliesan]

I can't imagine what that has to do with whether his claims are true or not. Maybe you could lay that argument out for me.

[Gunslingr3]

I can't imagine what that has to do with whether his claims are true or not. Maybe you could lay that argument out for me.

Whose claims? The Pope's (or whoever where's the funny hat where you live) claims?

[EggsAckley]

Yes, the phone thing was horrendous. I slept with my pager for more than a year. One night I got a string of wrong numbers in the middle of the night. It was some Hispanic woman looking for her son, and she had my number. I couldn't get her to understand that it was a wrong number. It was awful.

[Taliesan]

The guy that died. The guys who said he died who also died because they said he came back. I thought you said he or they wanted 10% of your money and that's why they said what they said.

Isn't that what you said?

[Quix]

My bad.

I don't always distinguish well or quickly when I'm on a . . . rush to respond to a list of posts.

Thanks for your kind response.

[Quix]

Thanks much.

Yes, there is HOPE IN THE LORD that I may eventually, in eternity, have a healthy significant conversation with mother dear that is beyond relatively surface issues. PTL.

Your concern and kind comments are much appreciated. The best to you and your loved ones.

[MarMema]

ping.

[Gunslingr3]

Isn't that what you said?

No, I said, "We know there is a supernatural, because it was written about in a book and told to us by a guy who wanted 10% of what we earned."

Now maybe you've been talking to Jesus and the disciples, but I doubt you're 2,000 years old. More likely than not you're relying on what you were told by someone who also wasn't there, and who, by the way, wants you to not just rattle that plate next time.

[Fester Chugabrew]

. . . with no demands made upon him . . .

"My burden is easy and My yoke is light."

. . . his job on earth was not complete . . .

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

. . . a sense things happen for a reason and that in the end everything will turn out right . . .

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose."

I see these themes recurring in posts related to this subject. Thanks for the post. God bless your spouse

[HungarianGypsy]

Actually, I have had a lot of awe-inspiring experiences in my life. For a while I thought I was really losing it, until I recently spoke to my Grand-Aunt and found out such things are common in our family. It's just usually taken for granted or not talked about. For obvious reasons. Like, how everyone will think I'm nuts now.

[moondoggie]

In his studies of near-death experiences, one factor Moody noted was the "commonality" of the experiences among the accounts that were relayed to him. This made little difference in _which_ religion the person having the near-death experience believed. It made little difference in the "depth" of the person's faith (i.e., "deeply-religious" vs. "mildly religious"). There was also little difference between those who had religious beliefs, and those who had no religious beliefs at all.

We must remember it is "here on earth" where we divide ourselves re: religious beliefs, but in the afterlife there are no such divisions.

Our bodies die and our souls live on in another dimension "whatever" we choose to call it.

IMO.

[music_code]

We must remember it is "here on earth" where we divide ourselves re: religious beliefs, but in the afterlife there are no such divisions.

The Bible says there most definitely is a division in the afterlife. Those who are saved live eternally in heaven, those who are lost live eternally in hell.

[realpatriot71]

Of course, I test the spirits. / This statement suggests one of two things: 1. You have never actually read the Bible 2. You have read the Bible but have never understood it.

Any spirit or spiritual experience that describes humans in heaven or hell is not from God, for this is not Biblical.

It is written: Only God is Immortal (1 Tim. 6:16) - man, a living a soul, is not. The terms "soul" and "spirit" occur more than 1600 times in the Bible, but never in association with the word "immortal" or "immortality". It is written: Human life is transient (James 4:14; Ps. 78:39; Job 14:2). It is written: Eternal life is derived from God, it is not innate to humanity (Gen. 2:8; Acts 17:25; Col. 1:16,17). It is written: The original lie to humanity was "ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4). It is written: the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23) - not eternal life in hell. It is written: God barred Adam and Eve from eating from the tree of life so that they would not "live forever" (Gen. 3:22) - if man were an immortal soul, this would not be necessary. It is written: death is akin to sleep (1 Kings 2:10, 11:24, 14:20, 15:8; 2 Chron. 21:1, 26:23, [*etc.*]; Job 14:10-12; Ps. 13:3; Jer. 51:39,57; Dan. 12:2; Matt. 9:24; Mark 5:39; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60; 1 Cor. 15:51,52; 1Thess. 4:13-17; 2 Peter 3:4) - not eternal life in either heaven or hell. It is written: The dead know nothing (Eccl. 9:5; Ps. 146:4). It is written: the dead do nothing (Eccl. 9:10). It is written: The dead have no emotions (Eccl. 9:6). It is written: the dead do not praise the lord (Ps. 115:17). It is written: the soul who sins, shall die (Eze. 18:20).

Think on these things.

[Fester Chugabrew]

How does one reconcile Hebrews 9:27 with such accounts?

How does one reconcile the raising of Lazarus with Hebrews 9:27?

[music_code]

Any spirit or spiritual experience that describes humans in heaven or hell is not from God, for this is not Biblical.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Phil 1:21-24 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

2 Cor 5:6-10 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

2 Thess 1:6-10 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Rev 6:9-11 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

John 14:1-3 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in Me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Luke 16:22-24 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

These are just a few of the many verses in the New Testament that confirm the truth of life after death both for the saved and for the lost.

The Old Testament confirms this truth also, although it is somewhat veiled in comparison to the New Testament. The New Testament is concealed in the Old, and the Old Testament is revealed in the New.

The verses you quoted from the Old Testament were written in the context of a man's earthly perspective on physical death. Thus, phrases like "the dead know nothing" or "the dead do not praise the Lord" are used.

As for the New Testament verses you quoted, along with your flawed exegesis of the Scriptures in general, my guess is that you are possibly a Seventh-Day Adventist or a member of one of the other Christian cults which disavows the truth of life after death.