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Top Saudi Cleric Assails Terrorists
AP/YAHOO News ^ | February 1, 2004 | RAWYA RAGEH

Posted on 02/01/2004 12:03:43 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez

MOUNT ARAFAT, Saudi Arabia - Saudi Arabia's top cleric called on Muslims around the world Saturday to forsake terrorism, saying those who claim to be holy warriors were an affront to the faith.

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(AP Video)
 

In a sermon that was remarkable not only for its strong language but also its timing — at the peak of the annual hajj — Sheik Abdul Aziz al-Sheik told 2 million pilgrims that terrorists were giving their enemies an excuse to criticize Muslim nations.

"Is it holy war to shed Muslim blood? Is it holy war to shed the blood of non-Muslims given sanctuary in Muslim lands? Is it holy war to destroy the possessions of Muslims?" he asked.

A large number of the victims of suicide attacks in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq (news - web sites) and elsewhere have been been Muslims.

Al-Sheik, who is widely respected in the Arab world as the foremost cleric in the country considered the birthplace of Islam, spoke at Namira Mosque in a televised sermon watched by millions of Muslims in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.

The mosque is close to Mount Arafat, where the pilgrims converged Saturday for the climax of their annual trek. This year's hajj has been carried out amid heightened security after a year of terror attacks in the kingdom.

In speaking of terrorists who killed fellow Muslims, al-Sheik was clearly referring to the Prophet Muhammad's final sermon, delivered on Mount Arafat 14 centuries ago.

It contained the line: "Know that every Muslim is a Muslim's brother, and the Muslims are brethren. Fighting between them should be avoided."

Al-Sheik also criticized the international community, accusing it of attacking Wahhabism, the sect whose strict interpretation of Islam is followed in Saudi Arabia.

"This country is based on this religion and will remain steadfast on it," he said.

"Islam forbids all forms of injustice, killing without just cause, treachery ... hijacking of planes, boats and transportation means," he said.

Saudi Arabia came under Western pressure after the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens.

The Saudi government conducted a crackdown on extremist groups after suicide bombers attacked housing compounds inhabited by foreigners in May. Saudi and U.S. officials blamed the attack, and a similar suicide bombing in November, on groups linked to al-Qaida, which is led by the Saudi-born Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).

On Thursday, suspected terrorists shot dead six Saudi security personnel in a shootout in a house in suburban Riyadh.

In total last year, bombings in Saudi Arabia killed 51 people, including eight Americans. Saudi and U.S. officials have blamed the bin Laden's al-Qaida network. Bin Laden is a Saudi exile.

U.S. officials have been encouraging Saudis to crack down on financing for terrorism via religious charities and curtail teaching of religious extremism in schools as well as mount a campaign to undercut popular support al-Qaida.

Liberal intellectuals in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait also called for such revisions in the teaching of Islam in schools and mosques.

Governments in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan have taken steps toward purging school books of terms offensive to other religions, and reformers argue that change should start by lessening the religious grip on education.

Al-Sheik warned against "changing the religion's basics" in school curricula.

"The minds of youth in the Islamic nation need to be shielded with Islamic sharia (law) and good manners and deeds. The nation's future generations will only be reformed by what reformed the past generations," he said.

Pilgrim Mustafa al-Shawwaf, a Canadian of Syrian origin, said he agreed that terrorists had tarnished Islam. He criticized Muslim fundamentalists, including the Wahhabis, for practicing an exclusive form of the faith.

"Such rigidity of thought needs to be changed," he said.

The pilgrims arrived at Mount Arafat in the early hours of Saturday. Worshippers of all ages and origins, moving slowly, shoulder-to-shoulder, shaded themselves from the sun with white umbrellas, chanting in unison "at thy service, at thy service, oh God."

Emergency workers directed the crowd as it converged 12 miles southwest of Mecca, in a ritual believed to represent the Day of Judgment, when Islam says every person will stand before Allah, or God, and answer for his deeds.

Temperatures approached 86 degrees. The sunshine made parasols a popular purchase at $1.30 each, and street vendors sold fruit, prayer mats and drinks. Along the path to Mount Arafat, sprinklers mounted on poles cooled worshippers. Free water and milk were handed out.

"This is the worst day for the devil, when he sees thousands of Muslims gathered in such a show of force and piety," said Egyptian Abdel Aziz al-Jezairi.

Fatima Farouk, a Nigerian, said that despite the demanding journey, she was thrilled "because after Mount Arafat, you're almost promised heaven."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alsheik; islam; polemics; saudiarabia; sheikabdul; sheikhabdul; wot
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The important distinction is that we have the capability to destroy the Muslem world in any number of ways if we really wanted to. But we haven't and we won't. We dislike and abhor much of the Islamic world...we don't hate it. If we hated it, we could make it go away.

Do you think for a moment they would hesitate if the situation were reversed?

We sit wringing our hands,questioning ourselves and wondering whether we're being too judgmental or unfair or racist or narrow-minded or unsympathetic towards the Muslems. Our enemy doesn't bother with any such moral soul-searching.
221 posted on 02/04/2004 2:18:03 PM PST by AminoAcid
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The Old Testament can be equally parsed to make it appear that Christians are barbaric, vengeful people because our Holy Book instructs us to be that way.

It's my understanding that the latter portions of the Quran supercede the first portions.

In the Bible the New Testament is more about loving your fellow man in the Quran it is the opposite, as ole mo got more tribesman to join him he got meaner and bloodier.
222 posted on 02/04/2004 2:18:10 PM PST by BabsC
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bttt!
223 posted on 02/04/2004 3:15:25 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: zimdog
shampane" for "champagne" or "boorreeto" for "burrito" do we?

Not a fair comparison as those words are already in the Latin alphabet in their native language. It would be interesting to see how the Turks transliterate Arabic.

224 posted on 02/04/2004 3:17:06 PM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: Bobby777

225 posted on 02/04/2004 3:22:41 PM PST by Alouette (I chose to NOT have an abortion -- 9 times.)
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To: Alouette
good job updating it ... that shows how little land Israel has in that sea ...
226 posted on 02/04/2004 6:10:27 PM PST by Bobby777
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To: BabsC
The main difference between Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, is the New Testament.

The Old Testament (A.K.A. The Torah) is quite bloody.
227 posted on 02/04/2004 7:38:32 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: AminoAcid
"The important distinction is that we have the capability to destroy the Muslem world in any number of ways if we really wanted to. But we haven't and we won't. We dislike and abhor much of the Islamic world...we don't hate it. If we hated it, we could make it go away."

You think so?

Country Population Percentage of Muslims Muslim Population
Indonesia 231,328,092 88.0% 203,568,721
Pakistan 147,663,429 97.0% 143,233,526
India 1,045,845,226 12.0% 125,501,427
Bangladesh 133,376,684 83.0% 110,702,648
Turkey 67,308,928 99.8% 67,174,310
Egypt 70,712,345 94.0% 66,469,604
Iran 66,622,704 99.0% 65,956,477
Nigeria 129,934,911 50.0% 64,967,456
Ehtiopia 67,673,031 47.5% 32,144,690
Morocco 31,167,783 98.7% 30,762,602

Then there's China, and finally the millions here.

Pick a fight with the people fighting you, not with their whole family.

228 posted on 02/04/2004 7:48:00 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: American in Israel
"Moderates dont march? Tell that to the Pollsters in Florida."

Let's see, you know better than I do nopt only about what goes on in your world, but what goes on in my backyard as well.

I was in those marches bubba...those were not moderates.

Moderates do not do those sorts of things, it's not their nature.

229 posted on 02/04/2004 7:50:06 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
you're still at it? lol

Like the chart
230 posted on 02/04/2004 8:29:48 PM PST by nuconvert ("Why do you have to be a nonconformist like everybody else?")
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To: Kenny Bunk
Fair enough.

I'm sure there are examples from Russian or Greek, but I don't know either of those languages well, and they are both inflected languages, so the cases used in English-language writing are not the only forms of the words in their native surroundings.

"Cremlin"?

"Krouchetchev"?

"Kryste"?

Hebrew isn't transliterated correctly either. (There are as many ways to spell the name of the festival of lights as there are days in the festival itself)
231 posted on 02/04/2004 8:57:41 PM PST by zimdog
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Talking to you is like trying to put a silver dollar in a dime slot. I am not going to use a hammer. If you wish to understand try thinking, your mamma may spoon feed you, but you must think for yourself. I can't make you eat brains.

If you think Islam is Moderate, and blowing up children is tolerable, I hope reality does not arrive in your dream world with a bang. A wise man sees trouble ahead and avoids it, but a fool blunders on and is hurt.
232 posted on 02/05/2004 12:11:54 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: American in Israel
Fishing is a hobby for some... Too bad survival is a fulltime job in Israel.
233 posted on 02/05/2004 2:44:38 AM PST by risk
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I guess the obvious thing you are ignoring is that those countrys have problems with Moslems attacking Christians and we also have problems with Moslems attacking Christians. That does not mean that they are innocent because they kill the original inhabitants of the land does it?

What a novel concept, Moslems are innocent because they kill others.

Are you brain dead? I seriously think I am wasting my time talking to you, you do not seem to have much ability to cognate what my points are. Somehow you are blind to what is going on in most of what I say. You seem to speak english very well, but not be able to understand simple logic. Have you been in Islam too long to think for yourself any more?

234 posted on 02/05/2004 2:55:38 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I don't have a Muslim problem in my hands, I have a Syrian/Iranian/Saudi/Iraqi/Libyan/Somalian one.

Some might note that all of the above are Moslim and realize you do have a Moslim problem. Some might even note that Nations are a western concept, and Empire is an Eastern one. You are in the position of saying I do not hava an American problem, I have a California, Texas, Washington, Tenn. ect..

It is the Koran that binds them together in the Jihad, and it is the "Holy War" that IS the problem. Therefore it is a Moslem problem, not an Indonesian, Philipino, Arab problem.

Now I have tried to describe where you missed the mark from both sides. Grasp it.

235 posted on 02/05/2004 5:04:31 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
You claimed that I attacked Christianity on this thread, I've asked you several times to show me where...called you a liar in the process.

The Old Testament can be equally parsed to make it appear that Christians are barbaric, vengeful people because our Holy Book instructs us to be that way.

No it does not, and if you were a Christian you would know that. The scripture that says if your enemy demands your cloak, give him your shirt too; The scripture Love your enemies; the scripture; Love those who spitefully hurt and use you are all examples of the truth to your lie.

I don't understand how you can consider yourself a Christian, and hold so much hatred for other creatures of God, because we are all His children Bobby...Muslims, Christians...He created us all.

He created Satan too Luis, do you love Satan? As for us all being his children, not true according to scripture. Man has fallen from grace, and are not "all His Children". Since Moslem's worship a God of murder and lies that has sworn to wipe out the Jews, I suspect they worship Satan. One thing is certain, they do not worship the same god. Calling what is Holy unholy and what is unholy as Holy is the dictionary meaning of Blasphemy Luis. You have done both, perhaps the cut and paste of "holy" Koran was an accident, but here you make a clear statement that Allah is the same as Elohim.

I can parse The Holy Bible to make it appear that God wishes all who oppose Him destroyed.
Or don't you believe that I can?

No I do not, because it does not say that at all, where the Koran does say that all who do not accept slavery or Allah must be destroyed. No parsing necessary.

"They (Christians) are taught to accept others that are not Christians"
Oh yeah?
Commandment number two, "Love your neighbor as yourself"... Yeah.

By defending Islam in it's war on Christianity, misstating the foundational teachings of Christianity to put Christianity in a bad light, and promungluating the heresy that Allah is the same as Elohim you have attacked Christianity.

236 posted on 02/05/2004 5:26:40 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: American in Israel
"If you think Islam is Moderate, and blowing up children is tolerable...."

That's ridiculous. You know there are moderate and secular Islamics. Not everyone in the Islamic faith is a terrorist. Stop making every sect of Islam the same.
237 posted on 02/05/2004 10:42:51 AM PST by nuconvert ("Why do you have to be a nonconformist like everybody else?")
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To: nuconvert
"I'm speaking more about changes being discussed in the Koran, and thereby changes in the religion."

Okay, not being a scholar of the Islam scriptures, I was assuming that there would be no reason to change the Koran, but only the modern interpretation of it. It would seem that the extremist might object to both the changes or a new interpretation. If an ecumenical council was rejected by the extremists, what would be the path to follow for the moderates? Do the moderates have the power to excommicate the dissidents of Islam?

"The broadcast of an immediate fatwah would no doubt help to quieten those who would condemn moderate Islam."

"No, it doesn't work that way. Fatwahs are "obeyed" by the followers of the cleric who made the fatwah. If a radical fundamentalist cleric doesn't make a fatwah condemning terrorism, it won't be obeyed by radical fundamentalists . . . "

But nevertheless, do moderate clerics have the right to make a fatwah, at least to send a message to the non-Islamic world that the moderates are dis-owning and dis-associating with the bandit terrorists and extremists? Wouldn't that help keep the moderates out of 'harm's way' by dis-allowing the terrorists to hide behind the moderates?

" . . . (or the people condemning moderate Islam as you put it). . .

Well, the people condemning moderate Islam are non-Islams who are pursuaded that moderates and extremists are the right and left hand of Islam -- the 'carrot and stick' of the Islamic movement around the world. How else can the non-Islamic world view Islam as a whole, if the moderates will not dis-associate and publicly excommunicate the extremists?

238 posted on 02/05/2004 11:20:12 AM PST by Eastbound
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To: nuconvert
Read the Koran. It defines Islam. What part of world wide conquest do you not understand? Evil is evil, quit trying to go to bed with it.
239 posted on 02/05/2004 1:01:27 PM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: American in Israel
The fact that you refuse to recognize that there are different Islamic sects proves one of 2 things.
1) you are uninformed (but you keep insisting that you are); OR
2)All Islamics are the same to you, there are no good people of that faith. (that would make you a bigot) Maybe that's why you never answered my question # 136 :
To: American in Israel
Are you saying we should kill all muslims?
240 posted on 02/05/2004 1:55:58 PM PST by nuconvert ("Why do you have to be a nonconformist like everybody else?")
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