Top Saudi Cleric Assails Terrorists

AP/YAHOO News ^ | February 1, 2004 | RAWYA RAGEH

[Luis Gonzalez]

MOUNT ARAFAT, Saudi Arabia - Saudi Arabia's top cleric called on Muslims around the world Saturday to forsake terrorism, saying those who claim to be holy warriors were an affront to the faith.

AP Photo

(AP Video)

In a sermon that was remarkable not only for its strong language but also its timing — at the peak of the annual hajj — Sheik Abdul Aziz al-Sheik told 2 million pilgrims that terrorists were giving their enemies an excuse to criticize Muslim nations.

"Is it holy war to shed Muslim blood? Is it holy war to shed the blood of non-Muslims given sanctuary in Muslim lands? Is it holy war to destroy the possessions of Muslims?" he asked.

A large number of the victims of suicide attacks in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq (news - web sites) and elsewhere have been been Muslims.

Al-Sheik, who is widely respected in the Arab world as the foremost cleric in the country considered the birthplace of Islam, spoke at Namira Mosque in a televised sermon watched by millions of Muslims in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.

The mosque is close to Mount Arafat, where the pilgrims converged Saturday for the climax of their annual trek. This year's hajj has been carried out amid heightened security after a year of terror attacks in the kingdom.

In speaking of terrorists who killed fellow Muslims, al-Sheik was clearly referring to the Prophet Muhammad's final sermon, delivered on Mount Arafat 14 centuries ago.

It contained the line: "Know that every Muslim is a Muslim's brother, and the Muslims are brethren. Fighting between them should be avoided."

Al-Sheik also criticized the international community, accusing it of attacking Wahhabism, the sect whose strict interpretation of Islam is followed in Saudi Arabia.

"This country is based on this religion and will remain steadfast on it," he said.

"Islam forbids all forms of injustice, killing without just cause, treachery ... hijacking of planes, boats and transportation means," he said.

Saudi Arabia came under Western pressure after the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens.

The Saudi government conducted a crackdown on extremist groups after suicide bombers attacked housing compounds inhabited by foreigners in May. Saudi and U.S. officials blamed the attack, and a similar suicide bombing in November, on groups linked to al-Qaida, which is led by the Saudi-born Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).

On Thursday, suspected terrorists shot dead six Saudi security personnel in a shootout in a house in suburban Riyadh.

In total last year, bombings in Saudi Arabia killed 51 people, including eight Americans. Saudi and U.S. officials have blamed the bin Laden's al-Qaida network. Bin Laden is a Saudi exile.

U.S. officials have been encouraging Saudis to crack down on financing for terrorism via religious charities and curtail teaching of religious extremism in schools as well as mount a campaign to undercut popular support al-Qaida.

Liberal intellectuals in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait also called for such revisions in the teaching of Islam in schools and mosques.

Governments in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan have taken steps toward purging school books of terms offensive to other religions, and reformers argue that change should start by lessening the religious grip on education.

Al-Sheik warned against "changing the religion's basics" in school curricula.

"The minds of youth in the Islamic nation need to be shielded with Islamic sharia (law) and good manners and deeds. The nation's future generations will only be reformed by what reformed the past generations," he said.

Pilgrim Mustafa al-Shawwaf, a Canadian of Syrian origin, said he agreed that terrorists had tarnished Islam. He criticized Muslim fundamentalists, including the Wahhabis, for practicing an exclusive form of the faith.

"Such rigidity of thought needs to be changed," he said.

The pilgrims arrived at Mount Arafat in the early hours of Saturday. Worshippers of all ages and origins, moving slowly, shoulder-to-shoulder, shaded themselves from the sun with white umbrellas, chanting in unison "at thy service, at thy service, oh God."

Emergency workers directed the crowd as it converged 12 miles southwest of Mecca, in a ritual believed to represent the Day of Judgment, when Islam says every person will stand before Allah, or God, and answer for his deeds.

Temperatures approached 86 degrees. The sunshine made parasols a popular purchase at $1.30 each, and street vendors sold fruit, prayer mats and drinks. Along the path to Mount Arafat, sprinklers mounted on poles cooled worshippers. Free water and milk were handed out.

"This is the worst day for the devil, when he sees thousands of Muslims gathered in such a show of force and piety," said Egyptian Abdel Aziz al-Jezairi.

Fatima Farouk, a Nigerian, said that despite the demanding journey, she was thrilled "because after Mount Arafat, you're almost promised heaven."

[zimdog]

you're really misrepresenting the "arab world" here. tell an uzbek or a turk or a libyan berber or a kurd or an iranian that they belong to the "arab world" and you'll get set straight faster than you could ever imagine. tell anyone on FR who cares about slavery that southern sudan is part of the "arab world" and you'll be called some pretty nasty names.

stop inflating you "arab world" statistics and maybe we'll pay attention to what you have to say.

[Bobby777]

I didn't make the map ... I have another one but it's not handy so I copied that one ... I think he was showing the Islamic world and I think you know that's what he meant ...

the map I use for the Arab world doesn't include Persia obviously for one ... and if anybody gets nasty, we'll have 'em booted right off FR, no problem ...

[zimdog]

I didn't know he meant to show the Islamic world because the map ignores northwestern Africa, west Africa, east Africa, India, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Albania and Bosnia. I'm sure I'm forgetting some too so don't take this to be 100% accurate, but the map you posted seems intentionally deceptive: too big to accurately represent the "arab world" but too small to accurately show the islamic world.

your point that israel is tiny compared to its neighbors is a valid one, of course -- next time try to use your other map. And in any case, pay attention to the Sudan -- we can boot people off for being nasty, but it's better that everyone is on the same page!

best,

zimdog

[Bobby777]

stop inflating your "arab world" statistics

700 was the number I heard before ... this site offers a slighlty different number, but in the same range as 700 times ... I'm sure my Jewish friends have other information available ...

672 times - http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/middleast.html

[Bobby777]

I don't have online access to that other map handy or would have used it ... yes, I'm aware of Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. as you say, they are not shown ...

I think he's trying to illustrate tiny Israel in a sea of nations, as you say, clearly shows it ... a bit of hyperbole might be acceptable since the United Nations seems bent on demanding Israel give back land ... land they won in wars started against them ... and holding back land they were given in 1948 ...

Regarding Chechnya, or Uzbek, I don't hear them as often regarding the Jews / Israel but the primary states that seem to be voiciferous are PLO-occupied West Bank (which even the Islamic king of Jordan killed in September, 1970), formerly PLO-occupied Lebanon, where there is still a force, Syria, Iran (at least from some of the mullahs), Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya from time-to-time (Khadafy suggested the Jews move to Alaska), the former leader of Malaysia wondering why 1 billion+ muslims can't finish off the Jews when Hitler killed 6 million in 7 years, etc. etc. etc. ...

after awhile, it's sometimes hard to tell where some of it's coming from ... it all starts to sound the same ... of course, it is the same rant ...

fwiw ...

[nuconvert]

I didn't ask you.

[nuconvert]

"But you also can't place blame for the radical behavior of Islamists in those countries, on Muslims outside that area!"

Yes and no. Strictly speaking, you can't; geographically, physically speaking. However, as we both mentioned earlier, there's a need for changes to made in Islam. Modernization of the Koran, for one. The muslims in all parts of the world certainly have that in common. And therein lies the "yes" part. Al Qaeda, for example, spreads it's ugly, deadly message all over. It's not only in the ME. It has spread to Phillipines, Indonesia. It spreads to muslim areas of the world to indoctrinate the poor and uneducated in those areas. So there is a commonality.

"Wahabbism, Khomeinism" are the enemies. Correct. Radical fundamentalist Islam is the enemy. People seem to forget or be unaware that there are different sects, beliefs, practices among Islamics. There seems to be an all or nothing idea about Islam. That's false.

Now, after reading thru most of this thread, I think you ought to take the opportunity to answer or refute some of the accusations against you. You've been called a troll and an anti-semite. Do you deny you are either of those?

[Bobby777]

I went looking and I found a copy of it on Google using a different search ... I used his map and made the comment, but this map is the better representation of my comment regarding the Israeli land mass being about 1/700th of the Arab world ... compared to the Islamic world, it's much, much smaller ... especially given the size of those other countries you mention ...



this note was with the map: Note: Israel is shown in blue. Also, Mauritania, Sudan and Somalia are somewhat cut off at the edge of the map.

FReegards

[zimdog]

I've seen that map floating around. It has its own problems (the decision to include Somalia and Djibouti, southern Mauritania and Sudan, as well as the Berber majority in Morocco) but is clearly the more accurate of the two.

I never thought I would say that about that map!

:)

[Bobby777]

yeah, I made a modified version (it is my modified version I don't have handy) of that map to show (approx.) the West Bank and Gaza, because the blue in even that map is too large to accurately portray the size of Israel ... looks like Sharon is going to pull out of the Gaza quite a bit based on recent announcements and the West Bank, well I guess it's about to become a state ... this map shows it better ... 12 miles wide at the narrowest point I think, but I've heard 7 ... perhaps someone can confirm?

[nuconvert]

"God is a nice guy, but that should be a clue for you. You ain't a gonna find a nice guy in Islam."

Take it up with him:

Grand Ayatollah Montazeri - "the Qur'an speaks continuously of a God of love, clemency, and mercy."

[Kenny Bunk]

ZIM, transliteration from the Arabic into English is pretty much ad lib in my generation, as from any other non-western tongue.

I mean is it "Hindoo" or "Hindu?" "Mosul" or "Mosool?" "Muhammed," "Mohammed," or "Mahomet?" "Muslim," or "Moslem?"

[archy]

Hey, how come the Indians don't get the credit for their part in the HinduZionist Conspiracy.

Dam, it's always the Jews. Can't we get any credit.

Feeling so left out and lonesome.

Pass the Manischewitz.

Mazal Tov, bhratar

[JudgemAll]

Hey Bobby, are Christians taught by The Bible to accept religions other than Christianity?

Obviously you don't get it.

they aren't changing the qur'an of course ... and that's the basis for their societies ... [3.85] "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers." The Dinner Table - [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

While you follow your masters in relativist morality, we follow the lamb as master of the lamb. It is much safer in this world of chaos to forgo choosing a master for the foreseeable future lest the real master coming out in the end becomes jealous.

[Travis McGee]

Ao what? You post on a debate forum, you get debate. Don't like it? So sorry.

[PigRigger]

Nicely stated.

It frightens me when I see good people come to the defense of the evil that is marching across the globe.

I've read many parts of the Koran; I've studied the Bible, the New Testament in detail. There is no moral equivalence between the two. Not once did Christ direct his followers to slaughter others for the sake of God's blessings. It is clear the Koran does so. To say it is taken out of context is a lie.

We are reliving the Crusades once again. The Islamic crusade is on the march. Wherever it comes into contact with cultures that do not voluntarily submit, mayhem and death follow. Christians, Jews, Hindu's and others are being slaughtered in the millions. A Christan holocaust of unparalleled proportions is occurring in Africa as we speak today.

We are on the advent of fighting WWIII; the fanatical Islamic hordes are on the attack. Over 90% percent of the armed conflicts in the world today involve fanatical Islam. Their goal is world domination based on the writings of the Koran. This is not a case of twisting the words of a religion, they have been at war with the west since 1100. Their fight is not new to them, it is new only to those of the west who are now experiencing it for the first time.

Some people on this thread should do a little historical research when commenting on the subject.

If we are to avoid WWIII the moderates within the Islamic fold will need to start a reformation. Unfortunately I find no comfort in this statement. Unlike Christianity, where Luther pointed out the hypocrisy of the Church in his day. A moderate Islamic cleric will be hard pressed to point out the hypocrisy of the fanatical Islamic believer when it comes to slaughtering infidels in the name of Allah.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"You've been called a troll and an anti-semite. Do you deny you are either of those?"

I don't bother giving weight to liars hurling ad hominem attacks, there's nothing in this thread that I have said that could possibly be considered anti-semitic, the attacks were hurled by people more interested in fostering hatred of all Muslims. I am simply trying to remind everyone that the true enemy are the fundamentalists extremists within Islam, and their financial backers.

And yes, the terror has spread to Indonesia and the Phillipines, but they are killing Indonesians and Philipinos.

The first victim of radical Islam is moderate Islam.

I agree with Daniel Pipes on this subject.

[Admin Moderator]

No personal attacks please.

[risk]

We are each free to disagree with Pipes. He advocates Islamic immigration, for example. I take issue with that, and I think many FReepers do as well. We see no reason to take the risk right now. Maybe 200 years from now after this alleged reformation (that I don't believe is happening anyway) is in evidence rather than peoples' imaginations.

Pipes is a gem. So is his father. Neither were right all the time. Pipes and I are on opposite sides of the fence here, and I am not suceptible to arguments from authority, not in this case.