Exploding Cost of Drug Benefit Should Wake Up Conservatives

Detroit News ^ | 2/1/04 | n/a

[jimkress]

It didn

[Dane]

I would be fired for deliberately misrepresenting the cost of a project at my business. Folks don't take kindly to being "BS'd" outside of DC.

Fine fire Bush if you want, but you know that the next CEO will be Kerry.

I guess you want a $800 billion prescription drug bill and have Kofi Annan as co-Commander in Chief.

[NittanyLion]

Paging George Orwell, I guess now bringing out a fact germaine to the argument is now criticism.

Well, let's see. Your initial comment on the thread stated, "BTW, not a peep from this editorial about the demos plan which would have been $800 billion. Oh that's correct, you are trying to help the demos, nevermind." which I took to be criticism of this editorial as well as the person who posted it. I proceeded to mention to you that the Dems' plan is out of the scope of this editorial.

Feel free to surface any issue you choose, but as I pointed out earlier, editorials by definition choose a narrow topic and cover it. Your concerns are not within the logical bounds of said topic. Therefore, your criticsm is misplaced.

I notice you've chosen to avoid this question a couple times, but perhaps you could see your way to answering it at this point: Is this 33% increase a legitimate source of concern and an appropriate topic of conversation?

[SauronOfMordor]

Do me a favor when you reach your destination called "the perfect world" how about sending me a post card. I believe that I will be waiting for a long time by the mailbox.

If RINOs get rejected at the ballot box, the Republicans will eventually stop putting RINOs on the ballot

If the Republican electorate is too afraid of short term consequences (some Dems getting elected) to work for long-term goals (a Republican Party that is actually conservative), then the Republican Party is doomed to drift ever-leftward

[NittanyLion]

Fine fire Bush if you want, but you know that the next CEO will be Kerry.

I'm merely drawing a distinction between DC and the business world. YOur claim that I intend to "fire Bush" is a strawman - I never said any such thing.

I guess you want a $800 billion prescription drug bill and have Kofi Annan as co-Commander in Chief.

Now you're attacking a position I never took, Dane. Surely you know this line of argument is a logical fallacy.

[jimkress]

BUMP!

[Dane]

Feel free to surface any issue you choose, but as I pointed out earlier, editorials by definition choose a narrow topic and cover it. Your concerns are not within the logical bounds of said topic. Therefore, your criticsm is misplaced

You are doing your darndest semantic gymnastics to make the fact that the demos proposed a $800 billion drug bill, go away.

Sorry, but it is a fact. Tar and feather me for bringing that fact out.

[deport]

Oh yeah, with respect to the "giving your vote to Democrats" comments - the lesser of two evils is still evil. As long as people refuse to follow (and vote) their principles, evil prospers.

---

Yep makes all the sense in the world ....... No candidate is perfect so this 'lesser of two evils is still evil' is really the lesser of three evils is still evil...... No matter how you chose to vote it's still evil... like it or not... So don't come with the lesser of two evils crap. Sounds good but doesn't fly.

You vote for a candidate that has at least a viable chance of being elected if you want to have any hope of impacting how things are governed. To vote for someone that has no chance such as the Constitution Party gets you nothing, no say so at all..... The CP couldn't break 100,000 in 2000, got Zero Electoral votes and doesn't appear to have a plan in place to even attempt to come close to winning any state, viable they aren't. Impact how government is run..... CP is laughable. Yep makes as much sense as the lesser of evils approach.

[Dane]

I'm merely drawing a distinction between DC and the business world. YOur claim that I intend to "fire Bush" is a strawman - I never said any such thing

Actually you implied with your reply #32, that Bush should be fired. I just brought up the fact that his replacement would be Kerry and brought out the facts about Kerry's policy.

You really hate those pesky little facts don't you.

[NittanyLion]

You are doing your darndest semantic gymnastics to make the fact that the demos proposed a $800 billion drug bill, go away.

Actually, I'm attempting to discuss the article as posted. Yet three times you've avoided the question of whether this is a legitimate topic of conversation. Surely you realize how your reluctance to discuss this appears to lurkers?

You see, the Dems' plan is another topic for another thread. The administration's actual behaviors are the topic of this one.

Sorry, but it is a fact. Tar and feather me for bringing that fact out.

I'm not tarring and feathering you, just trying to hold a good discussion.

[Dane]

If the Republican electorate is too afraid of short term consequences (some Dems getting elected) to work for long-term goals (a Republican Party that is actually conservative), then the Republican Party is doomed to drift ever-leftward

Yeah like tax cuts, a partial birth abortion ban, killing Kyoto etc. etc. would be something that a demo would do.

[justanotherfreeper]

It would have be DOA in the House last year if the truth had come out. Conservatives voted for it with the understanding costs would be kept in line. How do you think they feel now, that the true price tag of the law is a third higher than the original projection?

Oh, please! I usually think your posts are right on, but I remember EVERY conservative think tank and EVERY conservative publication shrieking about how low the estimates were and how costs would rise. Hell, AARP was openly saying coverage was too low but this was a good "first attempt" and that they could "come back to Congress" to push for expanding the program!

And use your common sense: name one government program, ONE that did not increase in cost over time.

No, you had lots of conservatives voting for this misbeggotten piece of slime because conservative congresscritters didn't want to be seen as troublemakers by the White House. Congressional leadership pushed this as "must pass" legislation for the president's reelection. The only thing surprising me is that anybody with an IQ high enough to eliminate them from the Special Olympics is surprised about the "oops! we did it again" cost estimate from the government.

[Dane]

Actually, I'm attempting to discuss the article as posted. Yet three times you've avoided the question of whether this is a legitimate topic of conversation. Surely you realize how your reluctance to discuss this appears to lurkers?

And three times you have stated that the demos $800 billion drug plan is not germaine to the discussion. It is since they are the other major political party.

Twitching your nose will not make the demos go away.

[NittanyLion]

Actually you implied with your reply #32, that Bush should be fired.

I made no such implication - you bridged that gap in your own mind. My comment was made to draw a distinction between acceptable behavior in DC v. the business world.

I just brought up the fact that his replacement would be Kerry and brought out the facts about Kerry's policy.

Yes, but Kerry's policy is not the topic of this thread, try as you might to make it so. Let's discuss this one, shall we?

You really hate those pesky little facts don't you.

I'm practically begging you to discuss the facts of this thread: this program has expanded 33% in 3 months. Doesn't that trouble you?

All you seem interested in talking about are hypotheticals, Dane. Why do you continue to avoid the facts?

[ovrtaxt]

then the Republican Party is doomed to drift ever-leftward

It seems thay have chosen that fate in order to marginalize the Democrats. If they can absorb enough power in the short term, they will be the dominant party for some time. The ensuing free for all afterward is going to be REAL interesting, as true conservatives coagulate into a new party to the right, and the laftist freaks coagualte into the greens or whatever.

Hopefully, the right will organize efficiently, and be able to push policy for smaller government effectively.

[Dane]

Yes, but Kerry's policy is not the topic of this thread, try as you might to make it so. Let's discuss this one, shall we?

Kerry's policy is germaine to the real world we live in. If you want to isolate yourself from the real world, be my guest, but that doesn't mean I have to join your isolation.

[cksharks]

Same s--t different day, same people.

[NittanyLion]

And three times you have stated that the demos $800 billion drug plan is not germaine to the discussion. It is since they are the other major political party. Twitching your nose will not make the demos go away.

At this point, I suppose I can draw the conclusion that you will continue to studiously avoid discussing the topic of this thread. If that's the case, perhaps you can express that in a reply. No sense in my continued attempts to discuss the posted editorial if you have no intention of engaging me in a legitimate discussion.

[Dane]

At this point, I suppose I can draw the conclusion that you will continue to studiously avoid discussing the topic of this thread. If that's the case, perhaps you can express that in a reply

And I conclude that you do not want to bring in real world facts into your isolated world.

[NittanyLion]

Kerry's policy is germaine to the real world we live in. If you want to isolate yourself from the real world, be my guest, but that doesn't mean I have to join your isolation.

I have to make the observation that your rather transparent attempts at avoiding the conversation (via changing the topic, erecting strawmen, attacking me) do your side little justice. If you have no concern with this turn of events, why not say so and let's discuss the merits of each side?