[Southack]

"He proposed to legalize millions of Illegal Aliens. Doesn't matter how the hairs are split, it's an Amnesty, just like the last big one."

I realize that this is your core issue, and I grant that you make valid points regarding this issue...

But you are misusing the word "amnesty."

You might as well label every plea bargain between every local prosecutor and crook as "amnesty" as to abuse the word so with regard to Bush's illegal alien registration plan.

Bush's plan, while much maligned, would give us something that we *don't* have today: 8 million Registered illegals.

You don't gain such institutional government knowlege cheaply, either. Bush had to give something up to entice illegals to Register themselves. Some posters on this forum even claim that Bush hasn't given up enough to entice very many illegals to register (an interesting complaint, really).

Once registered, illegals can be dealt with en masse. On the other hand, trying to come up with the resources required to locate 8 million crooks who are all anonymous and who are all on the lam (as are these illegals) would be quite an undertaking (and rounding them up into internment camps would make earlier European WW2 efforts seem small in contrast and in terms of bad publicity).

But with Bush's plea bargain, illegals can pay their fine, register, and then they get a blue card and the right to work here for 3 years. Of course, they have to deport themselves at the end of that period in order to apply for more time here...and Bush's plan gives them the incentive to do that, as well as establishes a Registry that will aid our law enforcement in rounding up those who don't comply.

That's hardly "amnesty." Sure, there might be better ways to deal with illegals, but this plan isn't all bad...and it isn't a completely free amnesty.

[Neets]

Quite an intellectually honest post SH.

Very good.

If we don't start tackling the illegal aliens sooner, rather than later, or regretably no do anything about it at all, it can only get worse.

How else to explain the 8 million illegals we have now?

[Sabertooth]

But you are misusing the word "amnesty."

< -snip- >

That's hardly "amnesty." Sure, there might be better ways to deal with illegals, but this plan isn't all bad...and it isn't a completely free amnesty.

I edited the part where you misused the term "plea bargain," because we've been over that.

Wanted to get to the part at the end: "it isn't a completely free amnesty."

I've never said it was.

Amnesties don't have to be "completely free" to be Amnesties.

Amnesties frequently have conditions, those are called "conditional Amnesties."

The conditions of the Bush Amnesty are very close to the conditions of the Reagan Amnesty.

[Wolfstar]

Southack, re your #607, brilliantly stated. Thanks for teaching me some things about the President's proposal that I didn't know. The House is not going to touch this issue with a 10-foot pole this year, but the registry idea does sound like a good one.

[autoresponder]

Registering them would also further criminalize corrupt employers and illegal aliens that work under the table and avoid federal, state,and city income taxes, Medicare, Social Security, state Worker's Comp insurance, state Unemployment Insurance, etc.

This could be then a federal felony.

The flood of untaxed dollars south to Mexico and flood of illegal aliens tothe USA would then be at least under the DOJ with John Ashcroft, GW, SS Administration, the US Labor Dept. the INS, and IRS all on top of it and making sure the lawful statutes and regs are followed or you get federal prison time and fines with zero early out paroles in the federal prison system.

[Sabertooth]

OK, I see some are buying the false "plea bargain" analogy.

Here's why it doesn't fly:

Picture yourself with a piece of property, and someone pitches a tent and starts living there. They're tresspassing.

So you call a cop, and he shows up with the D.A. and a judge, and the three of them go out onto your property, chat with the tresspasser, collect some money, shake his hand, and start to leave.

You stop them, and ask "Hey, why are you leaving that tresspasser on my property?"

The DA says "We struck a plea bargain, and he paid a fee."

And you say "But he's still tresspassing! You're letting him get away with it?"

And the DA, whose name is Southack, says "no, we struck a plea bargain."