Conduct Unbecoming - Kerry doesn't deserve Vietnam vets' support

I served in Vietnam and was a Navy Pilot for 26 years and I object to this phoney making fun of the President's trip to the USS Lincoln and stating that he can teach the President about an Aircraft Carrier. How can he do that when he never served on a carrier? Is it because he wears a Navy flight jacket that he never earned? This clown will be exposed for the phoney he is, let him get the nomination.

Adolf Hitler earned the iron Cross for bravery in WW I, and we all know where he went from there.

I learned many years ago that prior military service is utterly useless for evaluating the worth of a politician. John Glenn, anyone? Bob Dole? Daniel Innouye? John F. Kennedy?

What John Kerry may or may not have done thirty some years ago as a young soldier in Viet Nam has no bearing whatsoever on his voting record in the US Senate, or his campaign positions taken in his current bid to be elected President of the US. In context, his military record is a red herring, a distraction from his political record. It is the latter which is of current interest.

"I am a retired Ranger and proud of it.I think actions by Mr. Kerry after his service really leave question marks about what really happened and how he recieved those medals.My father told me how the man that saved his life and recieved a Purple Heart was also the same man who almost got him killed."

There it is. One moment of high pucker-factor and its a decision you have to live with for the rest of your life.

Mr. Kerrys actions upon his return have shown that he is an opportunist. And a collaborator with those who would destroy America.

This is what my friend a retired Navy Chief has to say about kerry:

He belongs in a "Tiger" cage. It was a bamboo cage, too small for a tiger. VC put us in them and paraded us around villages.

John
Quang Tri/Bien Hoa '73

More comments on this thread:

Conduct Unbecoming Kerry doesn't deserve Vietnam vets' support

Awesome...our Navy turns out the best pilots in the world...what did you fly?

Don't forget John McCain. His POW status is to be admired but what he did after that is subject to further evaluation.

My list was intended to be suggestive, not exhaustive.

Hmmm...George Washington, Eisenhower, Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, Truman, Grant, Hamilton and Lincoln et al

You post strikes me as a bit silly. The real test of a man's character is not when he is ponticating on policy but when he has to enter the crucible of policy implementation...in this case war.

While I am no Kerry fan ( I think he is an opportunist)..the mocking of military service as irrelevant to the notion of leadership is rather smarmy. It is also wrong as in incorrect.

In your many years you have learned nothing much it appears.

I knew you'd post examples of military heroes who turned out to be decent politicians, as well. Though I consider US Grant a somewhat dubious example. You prove my point. Some turned out well, some did not. Prior military service is a poor predictor of future political performance ... as I learned years ago in the crucible of the voting booth, looking at a ballot containing John Glenn's name as a candidate for US Senate.

Your post is filled with factual and logical errors, and you fail to see that the evidence presented refutes your position.

Good Day, sir.

Good data. Kerry in Vietnam Veterans Against the War , a democratic candidate against the war he claims so significantly I am a Vietnam Vet . His achilles heel is revealed.

I posted a response to this article the first time it was posted, at midight last night. I am responding to this article because I am thankful that someone had the guts to post it at a more reasonable time, when it can be more widely read.

These are the responses that were printed on Opinion Journal. Enjoy!

Conduct Unbecoming
STEPHEN SHERMAN

I'd Never Vote for Kerry
Ken Besig - Kiryat Arba, Israel

I am also a Vietnam veteran, non combat, who is disgusted at the way Mr. Kerry is flaunting his service in that war. I am pleased that Mr. Kerry, like myself and hundreds of thousands of others saw fit to fight for the freedom of Vietnam, unlike the other candidates for the Democratic Party nomination for president, particularly Howard Dean. Mr. Kerry was apparently a brave and honorable American soldier. However, and this sickens me the most, he is also an antiwar protester and activist whose protests and activities following his service certainly cost the lives of other brave and honorable American soldiers and ultimately the lives and freedom of the Vietnamese people, and most of the other peoples of South East Asia. I still vote in American elections, and I would never vote for Mr. Kerry!

No Respect
Denis Crowther - Ft. Lauderdale, Fla.

As a three tour Vietnam vet, I can tell you that every vet I know, has no respect for John Kerry. Thanks for writing what real vets are thinking. Additionally, being in command of four other men on a swift boat, is no experience for commanding two million in uniform.

Not Me
John Freiberger III - Macedon, N.Y.

I will not belittle a sitting senator vying for the candidacy of his political party in a forthcoming presidential election. However, I served in Vietnam too before completing an education that ushered in a professional career stretching out more than 30 years.

It was difficult for young, surviving veterans returning from Vietnam to readjust to civilian life because we were not the best liked people on planet earth. We silently came home to start families supported by the wages we honestly earned working in offices, factories, or schools and somehow coped with all the venomous hate spewed at us just because we were in Vietnam.

In my opinion, the worst of that poisonous secretion came from the likes of John Kerry and his ragtag band of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Their demonstrations articulating foul play and alleged atrocities over there did more to sway the general public against us than any other entity known to the modern history of that era.

I haven't forgotten watching the antics of those miserable little fools dancing in front of cameras for the nightly network news. They did not represent me then and the ringleader does not get my vote now.

No One Left
Norman Grant - Wynnewood, Pa.

This is a revelation to me. The list of Democrats that I could support has now virtually disappeared. Come on, guys, make it a race and recruit someone from the Republican roster with gravitas, like Warren Rudman.

Kerry Can No Longer Walk the Walk
Abraham Hudgins - Eva, Ala.

As a veteran myself, I fully agree with Mr. Sherman's article. I would also like to expand the thought to this: I do not think a veteran should vote for any liberal ever. No matter what is said or promised, liberal Democrats will never support the military or its use to defend this country. They may mouth the words to score political advantage for the moment, but they will never mean it.

When we signed up, we took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic, but for the last eight years of service myself and many others found the biggest enemy of our Constitution was sitting in the White House disguised as a Commander in Chief.

Please do not let your dislike of some of President Bush's policies cause you to put in power another set of military hating, Bill and Hillary clones. Although Mr. Kerry was military at one time and can talk the talk, his actions after he returned from Vietnam and since prove without doubt that he no longer can (and does not wish to) walk the walk.

I Wonder About the People of the Bay State
Harry Mathis - Round Rock, Texas

My mother was fond of saying, "Birds of a feather flock together, also pigs and swine." John Kerry's closeness to "Hanoi Jane" and the other scum involved in the riots and other anti-Vietnam War activities mark him as one of them, and these people were responsible for keeping up the morale of the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army and prolonging the war. Lots of American soldiers were killed as the indirect result of the activities of John Kerry and his fellow travelers.

Mr. Kerry continuously flip-flops on his record. He cannot be trusted to the highest office in the United States. I wonder about the intelligence and wisdom of the people of Massachusetts who have elected both Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, "Hanoi Jane's" cohort, to the Senate.

Branded By the Experience
Mike Roemer - Moreno Valley, Calif.

Like millions of others, I served during that time but never got to that part of the world. Although I agree with the writer's point, but I find the article troubling. We live in an era when most of us who are eligible (by age) for the highest office in the land were somehow engaged by the Vietnam conflict. Whether veteran or hippie or student or demonstrator, we were all branded by this experience. Like our parents, who were branded by the "Great Depression" or World War II, we are a product of our times. The "lessons" learned depend on your point of view. Whether John Kerry served in Vietnam is not relevant to me. What his beliefs are towards leading the country are what pushes my buttons. That he thinks that because we didn't get a "permission slip" from France and Russia for an action that, in hindsight, has lead to more positive action in the Middle East than I have seen in 50 years speaks louder than any medal he has or has not thrown away.

I Can't Even Watch Him
Andrew Radomski - Erie, Pa.

You hit the nail right on the head! A true leader would stick by his soldiers to the death. This is an abomination to the spirit of an American or any other soldier. I switch my TV off when John Kerry is even mentioned.

Taking Our Security Seriously
Shirley Cole - West Rutland, Vt.

Thank you for this article. I did see the Vietnam vet, who is a Republican, who would vote for John Kerry just because of his service kindness. Surely we are in a civil war in our country. We are in an evil world (of course it has always been thus) and we must take our survival seriously if we are to survive as a republic.

Not Fair Criticism
Don Bass - Asheville, N.C.

I served on the USS Forrestal and was there when she burned in the Gulf of Tonkin.

Your assertion that Mr. Kerry doesn't deserve my support is wrong, especially when you look at the alternative, a silver-spoon-fed-ivy league frat boy who never really served.

You quoted that "Many veterans believe these protests led to more American deaths, and to the enslavement of the people on whose behalf the protests were ostensibly being undertaken."

Got news for you Hoss. Many veterans also believe that his protest activities changed public opinion, which was the only way that that war was going to end.

Eisenhower had good intentions to put advisors there (based on what happened in Korea). Kennedy would have ended it (I believe that). Johnson was a crook that profited off of the war and Nixon played the honor card a little too hard on the way out. Still, I give Nixon at least a B- for moving us in the right direction.

Is Kerry the man? I don't know yet.

But you cannot make the assertion that his activities were wrong, considering the time and place in which they took place.

I came home changed, suspicious of government.

Go check CNN and see how many servicemen died yesterday in Iraq. While I am happy that Saddam is out, we have no exit strategy and that should set off major alarms in the head of a Vietnam vet.

Keep the faith.

A Happy State
Eugene G Salls - Asheville, N.C.

Thank you Mr. Sherman. I did not know this and find it very disturbing. As a combat soldier (World War II Airborne) I am offended by Mr. Kerry's actions. I'm happy to be from another state than his.

Disqualified
Gary Long - Lubbock, Texas

I was wondering when somebody would get around to this. Every vet I know loathes Jane Fonda as a traitor. Mr. Kerry's past collusion with her will be a huge disqualifier to them.

If JFK Had Lived
Del Foster - Palatine, Ill.

The Vietnam protest movement was and remains a major factor in increasing the American death and POW numbers, during the Vietnam War. The politicians did not have the guts to address the issues of Vietnam, and do not have the personal confidence and courage to address the terrorist situation that faces the American people today. John Kerry was and remains political in his actions in the Senate. No core values.

If John F. Kennedy had not been killed, veterans like Mr. Kerry would have never protested the war as he did against President Johnson and Nixon. He excused JFK, as if he did not have any input into the decision of starting to go to Vietnam in 1961. Gen. Gavin and President Eisenhower both, told them not to get involved in a land war in Vietnam. Only after the death of JFK did the protest from the elite left surface.

I Would Never...
Colan W. McRae Jr. - Lubbock, Texas

Soon after serving my 11 months and 29 days in Vietnam (1965-66), I developed questions in my mind about our goals and objectives in that country. But, because of that real bond that exists among Vietnam veterans based on our real experiences, I never entertained what I would characterize as the extreme activities carried out by one Vietnam veteran named John Kerry.

I have a few medals myself, but I would never have thrown them on the Capitol steps.

I would have never collaborated on anything with Jane Fonda about Vietnam. She has never had any standing on the subject, in my mind.

I would never have denigrated U.S. soldiers in the manner that John Kerry did upon his return. If I had direct knowledge of atrocities committed by U.S. solders, I would direct that information to the appropriate authorities for justice to be administered.

Finally, I have never claimed my Vietnam experience as a tool to catapult me into some kind of improved social or political standing in our society.

Just as it takes all 11 members of a football team to score a touchdown, it took every member of our military forces to carry out our mission. I went and served my time honorably because I thought it was the right thing to do, nothing more, nothing less. John Kerry was just one more member of the group of military officers who did his job, nothing more, nothing less.

Kerry Can't Ride His Service
Kelly Couch - Vernon, Texas

Thank you for an excellent article about Mr. Kerry, I feel strongly the same way your article depicts his actions. Many brave Americans gave their lives in Vietnam for our country, not to have an individual like Mr. Kerry defame their valor and also our soldiers today. He certainly cannot ride his Vietnam duty as a plus for the presidency. I am a Marine veteran of Vietnam.

Show the Phony's Photos
Dick Davidson - Punta Gorda, Fla.

I'm still waiting for the national press to print those old photos of Kerry tossing "his medals" away on the capital mall. He made such a big story of throwing "his medals" back to the government, then stating years later, that they weren't his medals but other members of the group. What a phony then and now!

A Real Leader Must Follow Through
Wayne Condra - Titusville, Fla.

In addition to the points mentioned by Mr. Sherman, Mr. Kerry served less than half the normal one year tour of duty in Vietnam. Though the three minor wounds he suffered only caused him to be "off line" for two days, he took advantage of Navy policy to request removal from Vietnam. This request was granted and he served as an aide to a Washington admiral. He also got out of the Navy early in order to run for Congress.

All of this is in line with Mr. Kerry's vote in support of the Iraq war and subsequent vote to deny funding.

We need a president who will follow through until the job is done. John Kerry has shown that he does not meet that requirement.

Kerry the Appeaser
Oscar H. Atehortua Sr. - Brooklyn, N.Y.

When Wesley Clark decided to minimize John Kerry's Vietnam experience as nothing of real worth, just because he was a lowly lieutenant, I was disgusted. The Clinton's puppet, I'm sorry, the general seems to think that his combat service, done behind a desk, in Kosovo was more dangerous because he may have cut his hand with a letter opener.

His conduct as Mr. Kerry is related is plain and simple unbecoming.

Now Mr. Kerry uses a Vietnam veteran to put some wind on his campaign sails and surprises everyone. When he came back from his Vietnam tour of duty, he aligned himself with the antiwar movement and "Hanoi Jane" Fonda. He throws away combat medals, but in reality those weren't his, they were someone else's. For his own sake he conveniently forgot that there was still comrades in arms dying, and he helped to erode the moral support to the troops still on harm's way.

We know his way of thinking about the Iraqi war, before, and now on his political quest for the presidency. Are we supposed to worry then that if the French looking candidate actually becomes president, he will be a dove, an appeaser?

Are we to assume also that if attacked again on our own backyard, President Kerry--arrrgggggx*yx/-please nooo--will ask for the U.N.'s approval to discharge his constitutional duties of defending us?

Will he, in order to gain a smiling nod from the Euro-bleeding hearts consult first, risking a second attack, before acting? Then, he may as well appoint Kofi Annan as secretary of state, Chirac to Defense and Putin as national security advisor.

All of the above would be unbecoming of a president; as is unbecoming of a citizen like me to think that my fellow Americans are blind to the realities of this new world.

At Least Kerry Served With Distinction
John Gauthier - Las Vegas

Among those of us who were in service during the Vietnam War, nothing was more demoralizing than coming home to a fractious, bitter American public who felt they had been lied to by both political and military leaders. Aggravated by inflammatory press coverage, that mistrust and resentment flowed down to anyone in uniform at the time.

Although I was not in combat, I was in the Navy medical corps, and saw the horrifying injuries to Marines who were literally pieced back together from parts. It's hard to say which was more depressing at the time: The sense of futility that this undeclared war had no foreseeable end, or the lack of moral clarity that might have justified such awful carnage on both sides.

So let's put partisan sniping aside and give Mr. Kerry the benefit of the doubt. At least he was there and served with distinction. I think he was entitled to some resentment at the time.

As for "Hanoi" Jane, well at least she had the courage of her convictions. She could have just stayed home and smoked dope like many of her privileged peers, including some politicians we know. While some of her tactics were offensive, it took more courage than skipping across the Canadian border. I have never understood why it was considered more unpatriotic to take a principled stand against the war than to simply dodge the consequences.

Kerry Learned the Wrong Doctrine
J. Reynolds - Houston, Texas

I realize from the perspective of age that, as an Army trainee toward the end of the Vietnam era, an overwhelming proportion of the small-unit doctrine was geared for defensiveness, for avoiding harm's way. Every class and exercise heavily emphasized things you could do wrong, the result being a mindset tailored not for attacking and eradicating a problem, but for lying low and escaping trouble.

I think this reflected the military's tacit view that the Vietnam War was being directed improperly by America's leadership, that bridling our armed forces would not yield victory but an endless and non-winnable conflict of attrition. Note the abundance of bravery medals awarded in Vietnam not for destroying the enemy, but for rescuing our own soldiers from horrendous situations into which they'd fallen.

Fortunately, the U.S. military's professional middle-manager core of the times took charge after Vietnam and rectified that approach, among other things defining the terms and conditions it would require for obeying our civilian leadership's orders to wage war and win.

In Mr. Kerry, who was not a career military professional, we see signs of that defensive hedging required for survival in Vietnam--but which is wholly inappropriate for contemporary American leadership, especially since we again are at war. The inconsistency of his views and actions during and after Vietnam can be forgiven, as the concept of that engagement was rotten from the top--but his application of similar equivocation to Iraq and the war on terrorism is gravely disturbing, indicative of a mentality we definitely do not want guiding our ship of state.

Surprise!
R.J. Parsons - West Chester, Pa.

I have one question that deserves one answer: What did George W. Bush do for his last year of duty for the Texas Air National Guard? I understand the records are missing. Surprise me. Post this.

Undermining the Troops
P.A. Denson III - Maple Shade, N.J.

Your comments on Mr. Kerry hit the nail on the head. I also am a Vietnam veteran (helicopter pilot 1st BDE, 101st Airborne 1966-67) and find Mr. Kerry's and all Democrats' remarks to be undermining the current troops, as I feel politicians undermined the troops in Vietnam. In fact I find the current Democrat candidates pathetic. They have forgotten where freedom comes from, others peoples sacrifices, so they can have freedom of speech. I honestly can't find a Democrat that could put their country's safety above their personal interest.

Does Kerry Believe in Anything at All?
Scott Payne - Muskegon, Mich.

I appreciate and wish to buttress Mr. Sherman's observations concerning the junior senator from Massachusetts.

It seems to me Mr. Kerry used and abused his veteran's status, his membership in VVAW, his here again-gone again medals, and his public trust concerning MIA's. These things seem to mean no more to him than high-cost haircuts: mere window-dressing for his campaign power.

Together with his backing and filling concerning his vote for the invasion of Iraq, he gives one a great deal of reason to doubt whether he actually believes anything at all.

What Do You Make of Bush?
James M. Dickerson - Lexington, Ky.

I wonder what this soldier has to say about a man who leapfrogged eighty others with the help of his politically well placed daddy to hide in the National Guard while brave men like John Kerry went to battle? Everyone, including myself (a Navy vet) remembers full well that the Guard was the most prized hiding place to escape Vietnam during those days, whatever they represent now. So Mr. Sherman prefers yellow above red, white, and blue apparently.

Go Back to Hanoi Jane
Jane McNair - Mystic, Conn.

Thank you for an honest assessment of John Kerry. Mr. Kerry's quest for the White House is all about power. He would be a disgrace as a commander in chief and the military has had enough of that kind of leadership in the former president. We have a true leader in President Bush who isn't afraid to stand by his convictions. The country should tell Sen. Kerry to go back to his friend Hanoi Jane and disappear.

Kerry Dishonored His Service
Robert Barnaba - Wilmington, Del.

Amen. It's about time someone told it like it is about the senator. Like Mr. Sherman, I'm a Vietnam vet, I respect the senator for what he did in Vietnam, but that is as far as it goes. When the medals flew back at the Capitol, he dishonored his own service for political gain. The press doesn't bring that up enough to him. Instead, the resurfacing of the special forces lieutenant he saved is being used as a universal healing for Mr. Kerry. No way! John Kerry will be a very liberal Liberal if elected and should be defeated in his run for the presidency.

Kerry Performed His Duty
Dick West - Encinitas, Calif.

It appears that Mr. Kerry did his duty even though opposed to that poorly justified war. When able to do so, he let his genuine feelings about it all be known. What more can one ask than to have him perform his duty even though strongly opposed to what was transpiring?

Does that not constitute a far better recommendation than, say, absenting oneself from national guard duty? And then burying the evidence? And then play acting like a hero on a carrier deck?

Thanks
Paul Hurley - Eureka, Calif.

My most heartfelt thanks to Mr. Sherman for what you said in this article. It badly needed saying and I hope it has an effect.

Hypocrisy Has Never Been More Clear
Brad O'Brien - Balad, Iraq

Bravo! Mr. Kerry's hypocrisy has never been shown by anyone more clearly. His "reclaiming" medals he threw away at an antiwar demonstration shows nothing but crass opportunism designed to cash-in on the sympathies which many of us hold for those who bore the brunt of the liberals' no-win war policies in Vietnam.

Some Things Need Clearing Up
Ron Norman - San Francisco

What about this interlude with Hanoi Jane; he certainly has to know how the veterans of Vietnam detested her. Didn't he care? What is the story about using false testimony from people who purported to be veterans at congressional hearings? When did he become aware of this and has he set the record straight were criminal charges brought for perjury. When he threw his or someone else's medal's away, what did he say to the newsmen or women who were there, is there a record of those utterances? It has brought up some things that have to be cleared up by a presidential nominee and now is the time to start.

Where Have All the Military Men Gone?
Thomas Dillard - Escazu, Costa Rica

This article says it all. If one is intent on choosing a candidate based on military service, much less heroism, that leaves Gen. Clark, and he evidently has some flaws that would seem to make his suitability as president questionable. Mr. Dean seems compromised by much more than his substitute service on the ski slopes. Sen. Edwards seems to have avoided the service that so many of us didn't, and there was always the honorable out of being a conscientious objector, which required an alternate service quite often more dangerous than that of the regular services.

I guess this was not taken very seriously along Park Avenue and the Ivy League. As time goes by, President Bush's Air National Guard time looks better and better and at least placed him at great risk each time he flew, and for all we know he couldn't have passed the physical for the regular services, anyway.

This is too bad, as our service men and women deserve someone who knows what being in the service really means, and it has become more unfashionable each election to provide them that protection. Pity.

I Cannot Honor This Man
John McCall - Coppell, Texas

I respect bravery and gallantry in combat but cannot welcome any man to my table who dishonored the medals those actions signified nor can I honor a man who worked for Jane Fonda.

Arrogance and Ignorance
Merv Benson - Washington, Texas

I was an officer in the USMC in Vietnam. When I studied why the war became such a mess, it was clear to me that liberal Democrats who were in charge of U.S. strategy were afraid to wage war in a way that we could win and they were afraid of losing elections if they did not wage war at all so they created a quagmire. Even after Nixon was elected strategic decisions were controlled by the Democrats in Congress who had a hissy fit every time an attempt was made to end the communist sanctuaries.

It is clear to me that Sen. Kerry learned very little from his experience in Vietnam, and any studies he might have done since. While his medals are impressive what passes for leadership on his part looks like arrogance and ignorance to those of us who have seen the real thing.

Kerry Wouldn't Support a Vietnam Veteran
Ron Beal - Lexexa, Kan.

Because of his protests against the Vietnam War and all it represents, Sen. Kerry would never vote for a presidential candidate who was a Vietnam veteran. So why should any Vietnam veteran vote for him?

bump

and pack ye off post haste, cupcake.

But for your continuing edification.. a story from Ted Williams, a noted conservative himself.

< I flew road recce missions with Glenn in Korea.( Williams was Glenn's Wingman) I know it sounds funny but whenever you flew with Glenn you felt invulnerable. It was like no bullet could touch you. You could fly into the worst AA fire in Korea and somehow you knew you would survive. It was kind of magical. It's a good thing I don't live in Ohio or I would have to vote for him.>

Sonny boy, you utterly fail to shake my case, or even comprehend your abject failure. I''l stipulate that COL John Glenn was underrated as a hero; he should have had a dozen Medals of Honor hung on his neck. So Kerryin' What? Senator John Glenn was a pork-barreling, tax-raising, abortion loving, gun-controlling socialist, and an utter disgrace to the Great State of Ohio, the United States of America, and the Human species.

Deal with it, boyo! Once again, for those of you in Arlington:

PAST MILITARY SERVICE IS NO PREDICTOR OF FUTURE POLITICAL PERFORMANCE.

I must disagree with you that the service record is of no import. Kerry's record is of import, as is what he made of it upon his return. Rather than face the scorn of his fellow Democrats, he turned on his military comrades, accusing them of horrendous actions (which he admits he may have committed, himself), none of which could be reliably corroborated, certainly not witnessed himself in his three months of duty. Kerry used his anti-military position to further his own career, building it on the backs of his former comrades.

You're not disagreeing with me, you're making an orthogonal point: to wit that John Kerry was a lying scumbag 30 some years ago and he hasn't changed his stripes.

My point is that even if he's the hero he claims to be, he also has a voting record in the US Senate. In considering the worth of Presidential Candidate Kerry, the political record of Senator Kerry is of far more importance than the heroic military record of Lt. Kerry.

Now if, in fact, he lied about his military record (an assertion I do not make but will entertain) that's another matter entirely.

First of all,"orthogonal"? Give me a break, you could have used tangential or some other less obscure word, don't you think?

Now aside from that, I don't think that my point was a separate point, neither orthogonal, nor parallel. First of all I never said that Kerry lied, he just misinterpreted his own bravery and presented the lies of others as his own. He was the emcee of the Jane Fonda show, and took the responsibility of testifying about the evidence presented in the Fonda project before congress, lending an air of credibility to the findings. But, the lack of veracity is not the issue, the issue is the lack of loyalty, the willingness to believe and support the anti-American leftists who could advance his political career. The man may have demonstated bravery under fire, in a kill or be killed situation, but he lacked the guts to stand up and defend his own commrades in arms against the attacks of people like Hanoi Jane.

I was in Vietnam in 1968. I was stationed at Cam Rhan Bay, porbably safer than any large American city, but people passed through on their way to and from the boonies. I overheard one such person discussing killing civilians, including women and children. This was long before any accounts published in the press.

This has always haunted me. I have no idea whether it was a common event, or even whether what I heard was true, and if true, what the context was.