CONGRATS IN ADVANCE TO JOHN EDWARDS.
Wesley must have missed Howard Dean's "Guns, God and Gays" commentary.
Posted on 01/21/2004 12:45:52 PM PST by conserv13
drudge link to the advocate, a gay magazine.
I don't care what his military career looked like, or how many bullets he took.
We had a congenital liar in the White House for eight years.
I've seen enough of Clark already to conclude that he can't be trusted to tell the truth.
And Shelton asserted that Clark would not get his vote, because in hs opinin, Clark was burdened with ethical issues. Maybe he's (Clark that is) a simple liar. You know, stretch the truth for self-benefit type stuff? That a serious ethical lapse that doesn't broach secrecy or sexual orienation matters.
EXCERPT:
MATTHEWS: Let’s take a look at what General Schwarzkopf said about you, general. This was on our show recently.
CLARK: Yes, I didn’t get to see this.
MATTHEWS: Well, you will now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF, U.S. ARMY (RET.): He was fired because of matters of character and integrity. That is a very, very damning statement which says if that’s the case he’s not the right man for president as far as I’m concerned.
MATTHEWS: Well, response?
CLARK: Well, I think you cut off the first part of it, which is, first of all from him, it’s hearsay. He’s quoting another officer who says that that’s why I was fired. And he said if that’s the case. Well, it’s not the case. I wasn’t fired for reasons of character and integrity. In fact, according to the statements of Secretary Cohen, Hugh Shelton and everybody else, I wasn’t fired at all. What we actually had...
MATTHEWS: Why did Schwarzkopf say that?
CLARK: I have no idea. But I’ll tell you what we really did have, Chris, we really had a policy dispute. We had a policy dispute in which one group of officers in the Pentagon working with the Republican-dominated Congress didn’t believe that the United States should act to prevent another war in the Balkans with another round of ethnic cleansing. But it was my area of responsibility and it was my duty to warn the Pentagon and the entire U.S. government and NATO about the dangers ahead. I took my responsibility seriously.
I gave those warnings. I recommended a policy be adopted. It was adopted. The Pentagon had the chance to block that policy, it chose not to. When the diplomacy fail, we went to war. And it was my responsibility to hold NATO together and put the strategy in place. And I believe when you commit American soldiers to combat, or airman or sailor or Marines, once you commit this country’s forces to war and the prestigious of this country, and all of the moral authority of this country, you must succeed.
And I pushed very hard to make sure we did. And there was some people who didn’t like that. But I think my judgment is validated by the fact that today 1.5 million Albanians are back in their homes. And Kosovo is a place of peace. That was achieved through leadership. This is a comment about my leadership, and I think my leadership is proved by the events.
MATTHEWS: Did Bill Clinton agree in your policy?
CLARK: Absolutely.
MATTHEWS: Why did he relieve you?
CLARK: First of all, I wasn’t relieved.
MATTHEWS: You weren’t?
CLARK: No. Uh-uh.
MATTHEWS: You weren’t relieved as supreme commander as NATO.
CLARK: No, I wasn’t. No. I was asked to retire three months early.
MATTHEWS: How is that different?
CLARK: Because, the way it works...
MATTHEWS: Weren’t you hurt by that? Weren’t you hurt by the president whose policies you supported against the opinions of other high-ranking military people that he would undercut you after you supported him against these other fellows?
CLARK: But you have to let me answer the first question you asked.
MATTHEWS: Go for it.
CLARK: If you relieve someone, you take them out of command. What happened here was, I was asked to retire early and then it was then leaked to “The Washington Post” in an effort to keep me from talking to Bill Clinton about it. So this was a behind the back power play. Bill Clinton told me himself he had nothing to do with it, And I believe him.
MATTHEWS: Why do you believe him?
CLARK: Why do I believe him? Because he’s the command-in-chief and he would not have done this this way. This undercut the ability of the Democrat administration to claim credit for success in the Balkans. And the first thing that happened to Bill Clinton when he went to overseas four days after it was announced everybody said why did you fire the commander who won the war. And he stood up there again and again and said he wasn’t fired, he wasn’t fired, he wasn’t fired. Have you ever read the statements that Bill Cohen made on my retirement? Have you looked at how he praised me and said I was a great leader? Why do you think all this is happening now? It’s one word, Chris, one word, it’s a word you’re not unfamiliar with politics.
(APPLAUSE)
MATTHEWS: You were relieved...
CLARK: Chris. Chris, now wait a minute, I was not relieved, OK?
MATTHEWS: You were asked to retire early.
CLARK: Yes.
MATTHEWS: Who asked you?
CLARK: Actually Hugh Shelton called me. I was in dinner with the president of Lithuania.
MATTHEWS: And what we reaction on being told to retire three months early.
CLARK: I said well why?
MATTHEWS: And he said?
CLARK: He gave me a couple of phony reasons.
(My comment: Like what, Wes?)
MATTHEWS: Were you angry with him?
CLARK: I said can we talk about this? He said no, I have to tell Secretary Cohen right away that I’ve told you.
MATTHEWS: So Cohen told Shelton to tell you?
CLARK: So I then went back and finished the dinner with the president of Lithuania. It was a really cheery evening. When I came back and got on the phone back in the hotel there and I had my secure communications guy, I said I want to speak to General Shelton. He said sir, there’s a Mr. Graham on the phone. And I was thinking Bob Graham, Bob Graham. I said what’s his first name? He said, well, I don’t know, do you want me to ask? I said no, no, put him through. I thought it was Senator Graham. He said, General, he says, this is Bradley Graham (ph) from “The Washington Post,” and we have an official authorized Pentagon news leak that you’ll be replaced by-he said, and I would just like to ask you when were you consulted with this and what’s your view on it?
CLARK: And I said well, Brad, I wasn’t consulted, I was informed about 45 minutes ago. And you don’t want my view right now.
MATTHEWS: But you weren’t fired?
CLARK: No.
MATTHEWS: Well, it sounds like it. You were told to leave. And I just want to ask you, why do you trust the president? Because the president heard about this, he must have read the news reports, that you had been asked to retire three months early. And he didn’t lift a finger to keep you in the post, when you had fought the war for him and won it. Isn’t that shocking to you and disappointing that the commander in chief you served so nobly and victoriously allowed you to be asked to be retired three months early and didn’t lift a finger to help you? And now you say such glowing things about this man.
CLARK: Well, let’s go back into the story a little bit more, Chris.
MATTHEWS: OK.
CLARK: Because this is a night that’s sort of indelible in my mind.
MATTHEWS: I would expect. What did you feel towards Bill Clinton as you were going to bed that night and you had your head on the pillow? I should ask your wife Gert (ph), by the way. But what were you saying? I just love that Bill Clinton. I mean, I won that war for him, and here’s how he thanks me?
CLARK: Well, as a matter of fact, the first person I talked to, of course, was Hugh Shelton. And the second person was Bill Cohen to talk to.
MATTHEWS: What do you feel about him?
CLARK: So I called Hugh, and he was in a meeting and he couldn’t take the call. And then I called for Secretary Cohen. Of course, he was in Japan.
MATTHEWS: They have phones in Japan.
CLARK: And he was busy preparing for an important meeting.
MATTHEWS: OK.
CLARK: So we had a little problem getting through.
MATTHEWS: You said a while ago...
CLARK: Finally I got through, and I said to Hugh, I said, you know, this is going-this is a mistake. I said, you don’t have to do this.
(My comment: Do what, Wes? fire you as you keep claiming didn't happen?)
I said, I can’t understand why you’re doing it. But you know this is going to backfire on you. And it’s going to make the United States look bad and look screwed up, and it’s going to look like all the frictions that were there during the war, the frictions that Norm Schwarzkopf had with Colin Powell were identical frictions. I mean, it’s a difference between the perspective of a guy in the field and people in the Pentagon. Always happens every war. And I said, all that’s going to come out, it’s going to make you look bad.
And he said, I’ll-you know, he said, I’ll check with-and I’ll check with our public affairs guy, you know. He called me back about five minutes later and said, he said, you know, he said, I’m really sorry, but the paperwork has already been sent up to the Senate on this.
MATTHEWS: Well, it sounds like you said the buck stops here with the president in another matter tonight, but it seems like in this case you don’t think the buck stops with the president. You don’t hold Bill Clinton responsible for asking you to retire three months early.
CLARK: Well, he could have-he could have reversed it after it was public. But I guess his judgment was that that would in turn undercut the secretary of defense.
MATTHEWS: He would rather undercut you, the guy who helped him win the war.
CLARK: The secretary of defense is-he’s his No. 2 in the national command authority.
~snip~
WIFE SIGHTING AND DISCUSSION OF GAY MARRIAGE NEXT:
MATTHEWS: We’re back with General Wesley Clark. By the way in the middle of the audience is the general’s wife, wonderful wife Gert (ph).
~snip~
CLARK: You’re going to go back to gay marriage again?
MATTHEWS: I just want to ask you if you believe that gay people should be out, able to have marriages or something else?
CLARK: I think they should have exactly the same rights that every other American has.
MATTHEWS: Should they get a marriage license? Should they get a marriage license?
CLARK: You’re talking about a...
MATTHEWS: The Supreme Court of this state has specifically said that the legislature, as we call the great and general court of this state, is required, mandated by the courts under the constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to write legislation allowing gay couples to apply for and receive marriage licenses. What is your opinion on that, General?
CLARK: My opinion is that I was ready to answer the question before you asked it a second time.
(LAUGHTER)
I want to get more questions in here. Now on gay marriage, I think that gays and lesbian couples need exactly the same rights as every other American, right of joint domicile, survivorship, inheritance, putting people on the same insurance policies. But the word marriage...
MATTHEWS: Separate but equal?
CLARK: ... the word marriage, that’s up to the church, the synagogue, the mosque, and it’s up to the state legislatures. So I’m in favor of civil unions, but ...
MATTHEWS: How about civil marriage?
CLARK: Civil unions is the term, and then it’s up to the states or the churches to whether they label that a marriage. I think the issue is equal rights..
MATTHEWS: So you don’t have an opinion, any state can do what it wants?
CLARK: ... under law.
MATTHEWS: Civil marriage or not?
CLARK: Equal rights under law.
MATTHEWS: Separate but equal?
CLARK: Equal rights under law.
MATTHEWS: Separate but equal?
CLARK: Equal rights under law.
END EXCERPTS
The transcript from which his testimony was taken was a bit more equivocal.
But there is no doubt that his testimony indicated that he supported a preemptive war; in fact, Clark said we shouldn't even use the word "preemptive."
He's another word-parser, like his former boss.
Speaking of "former boss," why did Clinton fire him from Supreme NATO commander?
As for Clark's accuser Sir Michael Jackson, perhaps you ought to look a little into his background. I'm not surprised he didn't want his troops in the vicinity of the Russians - they weren't unarmed and ripe for massacre.
Obviously not, since he was fired, despite his protestations in the lengthy excerpts I just posted about the meaning of "is".
"What do you think of General Wesley Clark and would you support him as a presidential candidate?" At the mention of Clark's name, Gen. Shelton's expression darkened, and he paused for a drink of water. The gesture prompted Henning to add, "I noticed you took a drink on that one!"
According to the account carried in the Los Altos Town Crier, Clark's old boss replied,"That question makes me wish it were vodka."
Wesley must have missed Howard Dean's "Guns, God and Gays" commentary.
Not much to back up. Shelton said Clark would not get his support, because Clark had an ethical lapse. Each of can decide, on our own, which of the two is "closer to the truth."
Your giving the benefit of the doubt to Clark is clear. To me, the general tenor of Clark's comments, as well as other news reports, inclines me to lean the other way. And life goes on.
Granted it is a small, unscientific sample, but all three said there was no way they were voting for Clark. I find their attitude interesting because two of the three brought up the subject themselves. One for example saw a magazine with an article on Clark. He picked it up, shoved it in my face, and I can't repeat the words he used to describe Clark.
Posted by: Proper Response at December 23, 2003 11:28 AM
Democratic presidential hopeful Gen. Wesley Clark said Sunday that his old boss Bill Clinton - not President Bush - deserved credit for forcing Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi to abandon his weapons of mass destruction programs, even though Gadhafi's turnaround came nearly three years after Clinton left office.
December 23, 2003
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