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To: RaceBannon
you realy stretch things to make that definition. I'll be back to this.

No, Race, it is you who is stretching "bound" into "wrapped".

Here is the definition of "bound"

---------------------

bound

Bind \Bind\, v. t. [imp. Bound; p. p. Bound, formerly Bounden; p. pr. & vb. n. Binding.] [AS. bindan, perfect tense band, bundon, p. p. bunden; akin to D. & G. binden, Dan. binde, Sw. & Icel. binda, Goth. bindan, Skr. bandh (for bhandh) to bind, cf. Gr. ? (for ?) cable, and L. offendix. [root]90.]

1. To tie, or confine with a cord, band, ligature, chain, etc.; to fetter; to make fast; as, to bind grain in bundles; to bind a prisoner.

2. To confine, restrain, or hold by physical force or influence of any kind; as, attraction binds the planets to the sun; frost binds the earth, or the streams.

He bindeth the floods from overflowing. --Job xxviii. 11.

Whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years. --Luke xiii. 16.

3. To cover, as with a bandage; to bandage or dress; -- sometimes with up; as, to bind up a wound.

4. To make fast ( a thing) about or upon something, as by tying; to encircle with something; as, to bind a belt about one; to bind a compress upon a part.

5. To prevent or restrain from customary or natural action; as, certain drugs bind the bowels.

6. To protect or strengthen by a band or binding, as the edge of a carpet or garment.

7. To sew or fasten together, and inclose in a cover; as, to bind a book.

8. Fig.: To oblige, restrain, or hold, by authority, law, duty, promise, vow, affection, or other moral tie; as, to bind the conscience; to bind by kindness; bound by affection; commerce binds nations to each other.

Who made our laws to bind us, not himself. --Milton.

9. (Law) (a) To bring (any one) under definite legal obligations; esp. under the obligation of a bond or covenant. --Abbott. (b) To place under legal obligation to serve; to indenture; as, to bind an apprentice; -- sometimes with out; as, bound out to service.

To bind over, to put under bonds to do something, as to appear at court, to keep the peace, etc.

To bind to, to contract; as, to bind one's self to a wife.

To bind up in, to cause to be wholly engrossed with; to absorb in.

Syn: To fetter; tie; fasten; restrain; restrict; oblige.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

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Well, Race, what do we find. The accepted usage of "bound" has nine definitions in this meaning - and only #3 comes even close to your interpretation while number 1,2,4,5, and 6 plus the list of synonyms seem to support MY interpretation.

The Amplified Bible renders the relevant passage thusly:

7But the burial napkin (kerchief) which had been around Jesus' head, was not lying with the other linen cloths, but was [still] [1] rolled up (wrapped round and round) in a place by itself.

This is taken from the most original source material and translated with alternative usages of the Greek words included as well. Note the description of the Sudarium... "burial napkin (kerchief)" and the description of its condition after the resurrection: "[still] rolled up (wrapped round and round)". These give clear indication that it was rolled when it was on Jesus and still rolled afterwards. If the Greek meaning was that it was "rolled up (wrapped round and round)" then it could not have been a covering for the face... it was a binding.


The Sudarium of Oviedo

70 posted on 01/23/2004 3:38:18 AM PST by Swordmaker (This tagline shut down for renovations and repairs. Re-open June of 2001.)
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To: Swordmaker; aruanan; thedilg; Bloody Sam Roberts; Alamo-Girl; Graymatter; null and void; ...
You better learn which word the word BOUND came from AND Napkin before you make more errors.

44 And <2532> he that was dead <2348> (5761) came forth <1831> (5627), bound <1210> (5772) hand <5495> and <2532> foot <4228> with graveclothes <2750>: and <2532> his <846> face <3799> was bound about <4019> (5718) with a napkin <4676>. Jesus <2424> saith <3004> (5719) unto them <846>, Loose <3089> (5657) him <846>, and <2532> let him <863> (5628) go <5217> (5721).

4019 peridew perideo per-ee-deh'-o

from 4012 and 1210;; v

AV - bind about 1; 1

1) to bind around, tie over

4676 soudarion soudarion soo-dar'-ee-on

of Latin origin;; n n

AV - napkin 3, handkerchief 1; 4

1) a handkerchief
2) a cloth for wiping perspiration from the face and for cleaning the nose and also used in swathing the head of a corpse

What is a SWATHING??

SWATHING
WordNet Dictionary

Definition: [n] cloth coverings wrapped around something (as a wound or a baby)

See Also: covering

COVERING
Pronunciation: 'kuvuring

Matching Terms: covering fire, covering letter, covering material, Covering of the eyes

WordNet Dictionary

Definition: [n] the work of applying something; "the doctor prescribed a topical application of iodine"; "a complete bleach requires several applications"; "the surface was ready for a coating of paint";
[n] the act of protecting something by covering it
[n] the act of concealing the existence of something by obstructing the view of it; "the cover concealed their guns from enemy aircraft"
[n] an artifact that cover something else (usually to protect or shelter or conceal it)
[n] a natural object that covers or envelops; "under a covering of dust"; "the fox was flushed from its cover" [adj] actively protective; "provided covering fire for the platoon that was moving up"
[adj] above or covering a wide area; "the covering darkness"; "shadow of the overhanging crag"; "the dark overspreading clouds"

Synonyms: application, broad, coating, cover, cover, masking, natural covering, overhanging, overspreading, protective, screening, shielding, wide

See Also: anointing, anointment, apparel, artefact, article of clothing, artifact, artificial skin, bark, blanket, body covering, bootleg, bubble, canopy, case, casing, chafing gear, cloak, cloth covering, clothes, clothing, coat, coating, concealing, concealment, concealment, cover, cover plate, covert, crust, daubing, dressing, earmuff, eggshell, encrustation, envelope, exhaust hood, facing, fig leaf, finger, flap, floor covering, floorcover, floral envelope, folder, foliation, footgear, footwear, fumigation, galvanisation, galvanization, grooming, hiding, hood, imbrication, incrustation, indusium, instep, integument, lapping, lining, lubrication, mantle, manual labor, manual labour, mask, mercy seat, natural object, overlapping, paddlebox, painting, paperhanging, papering, pavage, paving, perianth, pericarp, peridium, planking, plastering, plating, protection, protection, protective cover, protective covering, sac, scale, screen, scumble, seed vessel, sheath, shell, slough, snowcap, spraying, swathing, test, theca, thumb, tiling, tinning, tin-plating, toe, top, upholstery, vesture, vesture, waxing, wear, wearing apparel, wrap, wrapper, wrapping

This is crystal Clear!

Lazarus' Face was BOUND AROUND with a covering! Not a cord, not a tiedown for the Jaw, but a FULL FACE COVERING!!

That was for Lazarus. Let's see what it says for Jesus!

7 And <2532> the napkin <4676>, that <3739> was <2258> (5713) about <1909> his <846> head <2776>, not <3756> lying <2749> (5740) with <3326> the linen clothes <3608>, but <235> wrapped together <1794> (5772) in <1519> a place <5117> by itself <1520> <5565>.

4676 soudarion soudarion soo-dar'-ee-on

of Latin origin;; n n

AV - napkin 3, handkerchief 1; 4

1) a handkerchief
2) a cloth for wiping perspiration from the face and for cleaning the nose and also used in swathing the head of a corpse

So, it is the same word for Jesus!

And what is that Word? It does NOT translate into a string, or band to be used to wrap someone's jaw shut!!

Do you see it now?

Always refer to the Bible when talking about the Bible! You will see that so many things are just not true when you actually look it up in the Bible!

That BINDING, you called it, the cord, or tie down for the Jaw, is NOT found in the original Greek, it is a Kerchief, a NAPKIN, not a cord, not a string, not a band at all. It is a FULL FACE COVERING. And you see it for yourself now.

What day was Jesus Crucified?

Just a sidebar article.

78 posted on 01/23/2004 3:20:49 PM PST by RaceBannon
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To: Swordmaker
But the burial napkin (kerchief) which had been around Jesus' head, was not lying with the other linen cloths, but was [still] [1] rolled up (wrapped round and round) in a place by itself.

You use this to make the case that the napkin was wrapped around the head vs. placed over the face. And possibly the fact that it was 'still rolled up' lends credense to the argument. I.E; the Lord, having left it untounched ,would result in it's remaining in its origional shape and purpose.

However (and on an issue not necc. relevant to the 'rolled around' vs placed over' the face) - the fact remains from the text it was 'in a place by intself' - or physically away from the shroud if but a few inches to a few feet..

Therefore - thinging THROUGH the transformation causing the image on the shroud, one would conclude the Lord did not transform directly from the body out of the tomb in an instant. Else the burial napkin would NOT have 'been in a place by itself, but rather within the shroud itself in its origional place mirroring its placement in relation to the shroud at burial.

Therefore a conclusion is: a transformation causing the image, but with the risen body remaining for a brief time in the tomb; removing the napkin and placing it 'in a place by itself'. (Who else would be there to take that action)

While this is slightly extracirricular to the case of autenticity - do you know of any disscussion or theory, regarding transformation, regarding the physical seperation of the two pieces?

97 posted on 01/24/2004 5:21:21 PM PST by Swanks
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