Eight shot in Brooklyn diner

CNN ^ | Jan 17, 2004 | AP

[VermiciousKnid]

Yup, some schools in Manhattan have escalators. Some schools in the Bronx and Queens do, too. I don't know about Brooklyn and Staten Island.

My own (Queens) high school didn't have one, but we sure could have used one; my high school had over 6000 students when I graduated. That was ten times the number of students my college had.

Regards,

PS: It's a good thing nobody was smoking in that diner...somebody coulda got hurt!

[Gigantor]

"Ever been to Brooklyn, New York? Those people do not seem to present the makings of "A well regulated militia". Two men had guns which they pulled and they started shooting hitting eight."

Your remark takes the cake for the most idiotic post I've seen on FR so far this year.

I happen to live in Brooklyn, NY and would appreciate being able to defend my life in a situation such as this.

Your statement is so much Liberal clap-trap.

Congrats!

[My Dog Likes Me]

Or Pulp Fiction.

[Larry381]

I think I have actually been to the Galaxy diner years ago and they probably serve the worst cup of coffee in the free world. The shooters, if they drank the coffee, may have had a legit reason for spraying this joint but probably should have aimed their hardware at the person who made the coffee.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

I'll take that bet. If they were illegals they would have teachers that all had Spanish surnames. My money is on another segment of society; trashy lowlifes that can be found just about anywhere.

[Destro]

I did not say you have no right to self defense. The problem is people here in trying to score points think that is more guns were involved in that diner that less people would have been shot.

Someone said: "If some of the patrons were carrying legally licensed firearms of their own, the results would have been much different"

My reply: 16 people would have been shot instead of 8??

Havung guns does not mean we are safe from crime, just free.

[RGSpincich]

Makes you long for the old days when diner shootings were just wise guys conducting business. These amatuers need to be taught a lesson, we need to organize crime.

[fella]

Reminds me of a scene in a old movie where a bad guy keeps haveing a recurring nightmare were he is sticking-up a restraunt where everybody is armed and pionting their guns right at him.

[Kevin Curry]

Shootings? Pistolwhipped? Hmmm.... I though handguns were illegal . . .

They are. And it's a good thing thing the wounded victims weren't armed and tried to defend themselves. If they had been, they'd be in deep trouble.

NYC can easily tolerate senseless violence by criminals. It's the occasional armed potential victim who must be mercilessly crushed.

[Kevin Curry]

The problem is people here in trying to score points think that is more guns were involved in that diner that less people would have been shot.

If the criminals had had reason to suspect at least some of the diners were armed, chances are the robbery and shootings would have never taken place to begin with.

And armed society is safer not because the good guys outnumber the bad guys and might be better shots, but because the bad guys are forced to factor the odds of their own untimely demise into the calculation and are more likely to seek a safer way to adance their self-interest.

[Destro]

In inner city Brooklyn, where gangs are heavily armed such thinking while making sense and sounding logical means nothing. In a machismo setting when a group feels it is "dissed" they will pull the gun no matter that the others are also armed. Such thinking on your part does a great disservice to those who love the 2nd ammendment and what it stands for. (I grew up in the inner city with these types)

The 2nd Ammendment was not placed in the bill of rights to stop criminals or make us safe from robbers. It was placed there so that Americans can if needed rise up and over throw the govt. or protect it from invasion or both.

Saying that, I still think all Americans have the right to defend themselves with arms against criminals. I also think that the right to said arms has to take into account that guns are not designed to make us safe from crime or injury only to keep us free.

If guns = crime free then I don't know how the Japanese manage to pull off their low crime rates and how in southern states where gun laws are more relaxed there tend to be more crimes. NYC is in fact safer then many southern towns in terms of crime rates.

If you think that in a crowded inner city diner, that more guns would have equaled less shoting victims then we have a difference of understanding and let us move on.

[Destro]

Just to clarify what I mean:

The Founding Fathers knew, IMHO that having guns in our society would make us less safe from injury be that injury from a criminal or from an accident or from suicide or from 2 stupid men shooting each other in a fight like in dueling, etc.

They knew that having guns out in society had a trade off. But they figured that being free via providing the means for having a well regulated militia of armed freemen was worth the trade off of any unsafe civilian conditions that may arise from gun violence.

In other words freedom is worth the sacrifice of any potential unsafe conditions from having guns out in the hands of undesirables.

When our side argues that guns will stop crime we miss the point and surrender the safety issue to the anti-gunners because that line of argument means we cheapen the meaning of having arms in society. Our response should be "It does not matter because guns keep you free no matter what the trade off".

By making the guns issue a crime issue we cheapen the meaning and intent of the 2nd ammendment.

Travis, am I making sense on this?

[Travis McGee]

Yes, perfect sense. Safety against criminals is just one positive side effect of the RKBA, just as increased accidents etc is one negative side effect.

Neither though are the point of our RKBA. The point is to serve as a deterrent to tyranny, and a means to overthrow it if the deterrent fails.

[PISANO]

Maybe Bloomberg should call Annan and find out what to do! In any case it is obvious that New York is a 'quagmire'.

< /sarcasm >

[Destro]

Exactly. So when I see posts like these I feel a need to correct them. The RKBA was not intended to prevent crime or as law enforcement tools per say. Those are side benefits. There are negative aspects to the RKBA, and we probably would have seen that if all the diner's patrons were armed and started to fire at each other in such an encolsed area. Just because I feel logic dictates in this case more people having guns would have meant more casualties and would not have served as a deterent does not take away from the RKBA since that is not the role that right was designed to have.

Also a well regulated militia means a citizenry outside of the power of the state that has some discipline and some training.

The only way I may part with the purists on this is that I would have people who own guns have a common sense background check and pass a citizenship and shooting safety and competency course. With such a license (for lack of a better word) you could purchase any gun you felt like owning without registration. The govt would know that you have the capability and the desire to own a firearm but not what you own or even if you own any at all.

I hope my latter suggestion is not offensive to 2nd amendment advocates.

[Gigantor]

"If you think that in a crowded inner city diner, that more guns would have equaled less shoting victims then we have a difference of understanding and let us move on."

Who said "more guns equals less shooting" besides you? No one.

If one or more of the victims had been armed the odds of the pistol whipping would have been very low, don't you think?

According to your "logic," it would have been a BAD thing if two of the patrons of that diner were plain clothes Police officers with guns!

[Rome2000]

In the 1860's when you bought a suit of clothes it came with a matching gun.

[Rome2000]

I happen to live in Brooklyn, NY and would appreciate being able to defend my life in a situation such as this.

Do yourself and your family a favor and move.

I was born in Brooklyn, lived in the projects off of Navy Walk.

Went to Brooklyn Tech.

Moved to Florida when I was 29.

Best thing I ever did.

You would have to make a million a year to live in NYC and surrounding rat controlled counties like I do on lots less in Florida

We have CCW and can buy a handgun and keep it in your glove compartment without any state or local license.

NYC is a sewer, unless you are millioniare who doesn't care much about the cost of living.

Defending NYC is absurd.

[Destro]

MNice fantasy biut not reality. The RKBA was never designed to keep you crime free. Sometimes it may help other times it makes no diff.

It was never the intent of the founders that it would be a tool for crime fighting.

[Gigantor]

"The RKBA was never designed to keep you crime free."

This message brought to you by the National Non Sequitur Society, we may not make sense, but we sure do love pizza.