AN IMAM ADMITS IT; JESUS OR ALLAH? [RE RELIGION OF ORDERED DEATH]

ANDREW STROM ^ | 9 JAN 2004 | RICK MATHES

[Quix]

From: "ANZAC Prophetic List"

prophetic@revivalschool.com

To: anzac@welovegod.org

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:49:09 +1300

Reply-to: prophetic@revivalschool.com

Subject: [anzac] AN IMAM ADMITS IT!

JESUS or Allah? -by Rick Mathes. (Jan 9, 2004).

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Muslim faiths who explained their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.

The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: "Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Pat Robertson or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question... would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head.

_________________________________________

-Rick Mathes and his wife Trish are the founders of Mission Gate Prison Ministries, an outreach to those who are incarcerated and their families in Missouri and Illinois, headquartered in St. Louis. For more information regarding Mission Gate call (636) 391-8560 or visit their web site at:

www.missiongateministry.org

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[Quix]

Nice to have an accurate perspective on it! I wonder how many are saying such things to our President.

And, to a list of idiots in the press and amongs the HYPORATS.

I realize that this has a connection with religion. But perhaps more interested readers would find it available in this section than if it were instantly shuffled off to the religion section. Islamic kill orders for all infidels and the WOT are still news items, aren't they? At least until someone with a loud whine complains?

[martian_22]

It kind of sounds beliveable but don't believe everything you read.

I could write better. Well, maybe.

[CyberCowboy777]

Is there any verification of this account?

Someone not affiliated with the ministry?

I don't know this guy, and though I hate being so cynical, I will not pass this along unless some verification had been done.

[Quix]

I know the man's father.

His father is of extremely high integrity, honesty.

He is even more strict and stern about such matters than his dad.

It is inconceivable to me that this would be otherwise than stated.

Skepticism is often wise . . . to a point.

[Quix]

I will send a req for verification to Andrew. Please read my reply on this issue above.

[CyberCowboy777]

I hope you understand my concern. Sounds like you have some confidence, and I take that into consideration.

This is a set of quotes that can be republished widely, by many. But I do not want to find out later that some important point or comment was left out.

It was a meeting with at least a few attendees so some verification should be possible.

I am not trying to be a jerk about it, but I recently got burned. Thankfully I had only spread it to a few people to begin with.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

[Bob Eimiller]

Powerful statement.... perfect question

[demnomo]

I'm having trouble believing it's an authentic account, too.


No way would an Imam admit that basic Islamic truth. Most Imam's hem and haw around that important admonition from their moon god to slay the unbelievers. (The terrorists are just doing what Mohammad commanded them to do in the name of allah.)

Oh, and there's another lovely admonition from allah in the Koran and Hadith that allows Muslims to LIE to and DECEIVE infidels with impunity if it suits their cause which is, of course, to murder or enslave infidels who refuse to accept Islam.

It's rare that an Imam would admit that FACT in front of a bunch of infidels. (Bad for recruiting purposes as well as admitting to the ultimate Islamic goal of converting or subjugating the entire world to a barbaric, 7th Century Sharia "paradise on earth," doncha know.)

[martian_22]

I don't question your integrity it's just that one couldn't script it better for the outcome.

[Quix]

I've sent requests for confirmation to both Andrew Strom and Rick Mathes. We shall see what responses come.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1057613/posts

This was posted earlier.

[Quix]

I fully understand. I'm not offended at all. It's a reasonable request. Thanks for your good spirit about it.

[Quix]

Thanks, your link leads to this:

---

We asked Mr. Mathes if he could provide some information about the origins of the piece, and he responded:

This article is an exact recording of a real event that I participated in. My only commentary was, "the truth will prevail." I think this meeting was in May 2003 and I will not give out more details for fear of retribution. The purpose of the class was to increase "religious sensitivity", that is, tolerance for each others beliefs and I really blew that. The director was purple with rage however the Imam and I exchanged signs and said "Salaam" which means "peace" in Arabic (I hope). I questioned him (Imam) really to get a clear refutation of what is commonly thought of this Jihad nonsense. But apparently he wasn't educated enough to rebut my remarks or by his silence on this matter (I think) concurred with my implied conclusions. In either case I was surprised. And when I said I found it hard to be his friend, everyone laughed out loud. So the mood was an amazing mix of those who were interested like me and others that were just amused by the whole thing. I left the matter open on purpose (the truth will prevail) so that either side could speak up and claim the truth as their own.

Reporter Greg Kearney, writing for the Lee News Service, traced the story to a correctional facility in Fulton, Missouri, and came away with a decidedly different version of events from Missouri state officials.

According to Tim Kniest, Public Information Officer for the Missouri Department of Corrections, the event described was a training program for prison volunteers, for which ministers from several faiths were invited to give presentations in order to acquaint prison volunteers with the varied religious beliefs of the inmate population. The man who gave the presentation about Islam was not a Muslim minister; he was an inmate pressed into service to present a short film on Islam and answer some questions when the prison's Volunteer Coordinator was "unable to find an Imam to speak."

Moreover, reported Mr. Kniest, the prison's Volunteer Coordinator said that "The inmate did a good job," adding, "He was asked a few questions that were beyond his ability to answer. But he was not asked anything like that question [in the editorial]":

. . . the Volunteer Coordinator at the prison said that no such exchange as the editorial reported ever took place. "He certainly did not 'Hang his head in shame'," according to Kniest. In fact, the inmate was thanked by the assembly before being escorted back to his quarters. Furthermore, the coordinator does not recall any questions dealing with jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world as reported in the editorial.

In the editorial the inmate is presented as an Imam, or Islamic minister, which he clearly was not.
Whatever may have transpired at the prison training session referred to above, the notion expressed by this piece is inaccurate. Islam is not a monolithic religion in which unanimity of belief and action is coordinated from a central authority. Islam has an estimated two billion adherents in countries all over the world who belong to any one of a number of different sects with varying beliefs, traditions, and interpretations of scripture. (As well, some religious groups identify themselves as Islamic but are not recognized as such by the vast majority of Muslims.) No one Muslim (especially one who wasn't even a cleric) could speak to what all of Islam believes, any more than a single member of a Methodist congregation could speak for every denomination and follower of Christianity. Many, many Muslims reject the idea that "all followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of their faith," or even the suggestion that such an interpretation has ever been a valid tenet of Islam. We sent this piece to several Muslim groups and invited them to offer comments; they provided somewhat different explanations about the concept of jihad, how Muslims regard non-Muslims, and other related topics, but they all agreed that the editorial presented a grossly distorted version of their beliefs.

Last updated: 13 January 2004

---

Personally, it sounds like Rick Mathes responded to the realities as they were presented in the session.

And, now, the officials are explaining things away to be more PC.

[Quix]

I did a search and didn't come up with it.

Maybe I didn't read enough of the long list but when it started seeming to go quite askew from the title, I gave up.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I had read it earlier this morning, that is the only reason why I remembered it. :)

[CyberCowboy777]

Be careful of Snopes.com, even they have an agenda.

[TXnMA]

The above-referenced Snopes article certainly casts doubt as to the veracity of whether the event occured exactly as reported.

My personal prediliction is to believe that the above article reflects reality re some islamist sects -- and that it makes a good story. However, I find it difficult to accept as an accurate depiction of an actual event...

IMHO, Jesus is the clear winner -- no matter how this particular story turns out

[Quix]

That's my feeling and perspective, as well. They have a very PC agenda, IMhO.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Yes, but I think the final argument that there are so many different adherents to Islam makes a good point... one person cannot speak for all Muslims.