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Business Cheers Bush's Plan to Hire Immigrants More Easily, but Labor Is Wary
NY Times ^ | Jan. 12, 2004 | STEVEN GREENHOUSE

Posted on 01/12/2004 8:36:57 PM PST by FairOpinion

Every year Frank Romano has trouble hiring enough workers to fill the vacancies at his nursing home chain in Massachusetts, from $60,000-a-year nurses to $8-an-hour kitchen and laundry workers.

Not only are there not enough American-trained nurses available, said Mr. Romano, who hires 300 new workers a year, but hardly any Americans are willing to take the lowly, sweaty jobs in a nursing home's kitchen or laundry.

Mr. Romano has long savored one solution for such hiring woes: the federal government should make it easier to bring in workers from abroad.

Not surprisingly, he joined executives in many industries, including hotels, restaurants, hospitals, construction and agriculture, to applaud President Bush's new proposals to revamp immigration policy and to make it easier to hire foreign workers.

"Americans just don't want to take a lower-paying, entry-level job," said Mr. Romano, founder and owner of the Essex Group, a chain of 15 nursing homes and assisted-living facilities, based in Rowley, Mass. "They will not apply for it. Last year, I had to spend close to $300,000 on help-wanted ads because it was such a struggle to find people to do the jobs we need done."

Mr. Bush's proposals would give renewable three-year visas to illegal immigrants already working in the United States as well as to foreign applicants who are newly hired for jobs here. But many unions and immigrant advocacy groups have denounced the plan, saying it would create a permanent, exploitable second-tier of workers who would never have the opportunity for permanent residency and full citizenship.

Mr. Bush's plan is an outline, and Congress is expected to add specifics when it takes up new immigration legislation. Under the plan, businesses would have to show that no Americans want the jobs available before they bring in temporary workers from abroad. Business wants that test to be minimal, with many embracing a White House proposal that businesses be allowed to hire foreigners if no Americans respond to job postings on Web sites.

But organized labor and some Congressional Democrats want businesses to satisfy strict criteria before hiring from abroad. One fear, for example, is that a business that now pays American construction laborers $11 an hour will say that it henceforth needs laborers at $6 an hour, knowing that hardly any Americans would take arduous jobs paying so little.

As a result, some labor unions say they want a wage floor incorporated into the immigration reforms.

"If you don't have these protections, you're going to have a race to the bottom," said Frank Sharry, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, a liberal group that seeks to ease immigration rules. "You'll have $12-an-hour hotel workers undermined by the $7-an-hour temporary workers from overseas."

Like many other executives, Mr. Romano said he was not backing Mr. Bush's proposals in the hope of hiring immigrants at rock bottom levels, like the $5.15-an-hour federal minimum wage.

"We pay anywhere from $8 to $11 for entry-level jobs, and we provide health insurance, too," Mr. Romano said.

But labor and immigrant groups say many employers will pay the minimum wage with minimal benefits. They say Mr. Bush's proposal will leave immigrants in a weak position because their visas will be tied to their employer. If they get fired, perhaps for complaining that their employer is not paying them at least minimum wage or time-and-a-half for overtime, they could face deportation.

"As presented so far, it appears the Bush proposal protects the often abusive behavior of employers who hire undocumented workers, but leaves the workers themselves vulnerable and beholden to those employers for the right to stay here," said Terence O'Sullivan, president of the Laborers' International Union of North America.

In presenting his proposals on Wednesday, Mr. Bush said his plan would take illegal immigrant workers out of the shadows and would, by giving them temporary visas, make them less vulnerable and better able to assert their rights. His proposal, business executives say, is not geared so much for small businesses that have a handful of illegal immigrant workers and often pay very low wages, but for larger businesses like hotels and nursing homes that need dozens or hundreds of new workers each year.

Xavier Teixido, who runs Harry's Savoy Grill and Harry's Seafood Grill in Wilmington, Del., applauded the president's proposal, saying that existing guest-worker programs hardly helped him. Those programs are more for farmers or high-tech companies and often require a lengthy application process.

Last October, Mr. Teixido opened his seafood grill and had trouble hiring the 50 workers he needed. "We're in an industry that is creating a lot of jobs, creating them faster than we have the ability to fill them," he said.

Finding enough workers is so hard that his two restaurants have a full-time recruiter and human resources director. That director, Nicole Micolucci, said Mr. Bush's proposal would help. "There is need for a larger applicant pool, and I think expanding the applicant pool for all industries would benefit everyone," Ms. Micolucci said.

For unions and some immigrant groups, there is a fear that Mr. Bush's plan would depress wages.

"He's talking about creating a class of workers, potentially a permanent class of workers, who are more vulnerable and less protected than the rest of the work force," said Cecilia Muñoz, vice president for policy at the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy organization. "That's bad for them, and it's clearly bad for the rest of the U.S. work force. It will undercut the wages and working conditions for the permanent work force."

The Bush administration as well as many economists and business executives say the difficulties in finding enough workers for various industries is hurting the economy.

"Right now, we are facing a labor shortage which has the effect of depressing economic growth and job growth," said Randel Johnson, vice president for labor, immigration and employee benefits at the United States Chamber of Commerce. "When the economy grows more, that will have a beneficial effect on American workers."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; immigrants; immigration
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To: longtermmemmory
The news (fnc I believe)just had a blurb that every Mexican president has carried the policy that the mexicans actually own the southeaster united states and it has been their long term policy to reclaim the territory by sheer force of population.

-----------------------

Stated, or unstated, this is true. The policy is being successfully implemented with the aid of Bush. It's the Aztlan or reconquista movement.

According to the original claims of Hernando Cortez, all the land from somewhere around Panama through Utah, Wyoming, California, etc. were owned by Spain. There were no Mexicans there at the time. Cortez never saw the area. Cortez was only familiar with groups of local indiat tribes around the rivers in lower "Mexico". The American area was sparcely inhabited by what we now call native Americans, indians, who did not identify themselves with Mexico or Spain or Cortez.

Mexico, Mexicans, want rights to land they never really had, or had any right to.

21 posted on 01/12/2004 9:18:56 PM PST by RLK
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To: FITZ
You ought to visit one of the county hospitals or welfare offices in the SW where many immigrants are --- you'll see all kinds who aren't here to work. The Medicaid rolls are filled with immigrants.

I don't disagree with you .. but to me, this also falls in line with the abuse of welfare and all the free programs.

Hospitals, from what I understand aren't allowed to turn away people for ER care. Many women (not just from Mexico) come to this country to have their babies ... Why?? because their babies will become US citizens with all the rights that come with it .. and in this country we won't keep the child and deport the mother

22 posted on 01/12/2004 9:20:43 PM PST by Mo1 (Join the dollar a day crowd now!)
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To: FairOpinion
State's immigrants leading in welfare use, survey says

New citizens in California are nearly three times more likely to receive welfare than native-born residents, a dramatic difference that is not seen in other states with burgeoning immigrant populations, according to a new report by the U.S. General Accounting Office.

In addition to general welfare, the GAO -- the investigative arm of Congress -- has documented similar differences in the use of Medicaid, the nation's health insurance program for the needy.

In California, for instance, the number of citizens naturalized in fiscal years 1996 and 1997 receiving Medi-Cal (California's Medicaid program) was 23.7 percent, compared with 8.2 percent for native-born citizens. In Illinois, one of five states studied by the GAO because they have large numbers of immigrants, the difference was insignificant -- 7.5 percent for new citizens vs. 6 percent for the native-born.

23 posted on 01/12/2004 9:23:48 PM PST by FITZ
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To: FairOpinion
Do you realize there are generations of people, who spend their entire life on welfare, than they produce children starting at age 14-16, who also spend all of their lives on welfare, following in the footsteps of their parents?

Yes --- we see a lot of it here --- here are a couple of links ---- the worst teen pregancy problem exists in the SW USA -- not from native born Americans.

Teen pregnancy a problem in Valley

Teenage pregnancy rates in the Rio Grande Valley are consistently higher than those in Texas and the rest of the United States, with more than one in 24 girls becoming pregnant between the ages of 13 and 17.

Those who become pregnant in the Valley often don’t have the resources they need to finish school, raise a healthy child and regain control of their lives, experts said.

"We’ve seen a lot of girls who are very young who have repeat pregnancies," said Monica Salinas, program director at Buckner Children & Family Services, which ran one of the few teenage mother support programs outside of schools in the Valley before it shut down last year. "If it happens once, (we say) ‘Let’s everybody work together to help this child make better life choices,’ and then it happens all over again."

The goal of the program was to wean the girls off public assistance. It wasn’t uncommon for Salinas to work with girls who were 14 or 15 years old and had two or three babies. Most of them needed help navigating public-assistance programs, finding ways to finish school, improving self-esteem, and learning basic baby care and family planning, she said.

She tried hard to get the three-year pilot program, called Second Chance, extended from Hidalgo County to the entire Valley so girls in Brownsville, Rio Grande City and Raymondville could benefit. Instead, the Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services changed requirements of the program, allowing only 19- to 21-year-olds who needed housing assistance to get help.

Pregnancies Concern Gadsden School Officials

ANTHONY, N.M. - The Gadsden Independent School District says 66 students are pregnant - most of them younger than age 15 and two of them still in elementary school.

Young girls getting pregnant is nothing new, but the problem appears to be increasing, said Sue Gowing, a nurse with La Clinica de Familia who splits her time between the district's two high school clinics.

Forty of the pregnant girls this year are freshmen, seven are in middle school and two are in elementary school. Sixth-grade is elementary school in the Gadsden district.

Last year 74 pregnancies were reported at Gadsden High School; 20 were reported at Santa Teresa High School.

New Mexico has the fifth highest teenage birth rate in the country, with nearly 5,000 babies born to teenagers each year. About one-third of all families in New Mexico begin with a birth to a teenage mother. Dona Ana County had the fifth-highest teenage pregnancy rate in New Mexico last year.

24 posted on 01/12/2004 9:32:26 PM PST by FITZ
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To: FairOpinion
How are people who WORK for a living costing us taxpayers, please enlighten us.

Housing assistance, food stamps, education for their kids, hospitalization, dental, etc. That's how they're costing us. The American taxpayer is subsidizing those 'cheap wages.'
25 posted on 01/12/2004 9:42:48 PM PST by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: FITZ
Black pregnancy rates beat all others.

http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/teen_preg_stats.html#t1

REv. Jesse Peterson frequently talks about statistics that 70% of black children are born to unwed mothers.
26 posted on 01/12/2004 10:11:33 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FITZ
From your link:

"In 1993, Matloff finished a groundbreaking study that showed that despite a ``model minority'' stereotypical image of being self-sufficient, 55 percent of elderly Chinese immigrants in California received public assistance, mostly Supplemental Security Income. Among elderly Vietnamese immigrants, the figure was 74 percent, compared with 21 percent of Mexican immigrants and 9 percent of the native-born elderly."

Looks like the Mexicans aren't the real problem after all...

27 posted on 01/12/2004 10:18:47 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
I have seen it, when you hire a "white guy" to clean your yard vs. a Mexican. The Mexican works twice as hard, and really gets things done, while the white guy is looking for the easy way to do it, and to explain to you, how the work is more than what was originally agreed to and you should pay him more

I am in my office. Across the street a business put in a long natural stone planter two years ago. They hired a white guy to put it in. For two and a half days he studied it, adjusted the radio, got a drink, changed the radio station, got a drink. . .

We had people lined up at the window taking bets on when the next stone would go in. We had hourly updates on the progress or lack of same. After two and a half days he was still on the base course. They fired him and brought in a Mexican. In four hours the thing was built, trees and flowers planted and watered.

Behind my office an outfit has a ramp and loading dock. The whole thing is about 10 feet wide and thirty feet long. We got eight inches of snow and they sent two kids out to shovel it off. After two hours I couldn't take it any more. I walked around, grabbed a shovel from one of the kids and in 5 minutes had the whole thing done and broomed. They just stood there and stared.

28 posted on 01/12/2004 10:58:38 PM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Thanks for relating your experience.

That is the problem in a nutshell -- many of the US workers balk at having to do actual work. While they study the problem, you get a Mexican, who actually does it. That is why business owners hire Mexicans, legal or illegal.
29 posted on 01/12/2004 11:03:52 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
They came here and found a welfare state. Of course they are going to use it. That is how we do things. They are also more likely to be working than a white person utilizing the same facilities.
30 posted on 01/12/2004 11:06:03 PM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: FairOpinion
I was just sitting here musing. For years I was a contractor. The American you hire today is not the same American we had thirty years ago.

The Mexicans we hired all had papers, even if they were suspect. We used them for the hard work, rough framing, blockwork, etc. They were notoriously bad at finish work.

A few weeks ago a friend invited me over to show me his new house. I about paniced when I saw that the crew he had were Mexicans. I was afraid of what the interior would look like.

I was completely suprised. Millwork was some of the best I have ever seen. Every line was true and blended beautifully.

If this is an indication of the progress that Mexicans have made in general than it is all over for the gringos. I could not have done better work myself.

31 posted on 01/12/2004 11:22:41 PM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: MARTIAL MONK
"The American you hire today is not the same American we had thirty years ago."

===

I think that's the problem -- they become more like primadonnas, while the Mexicans learned more and more trades.

Of course it's not true 100% of the time, but it's true enough of the time to be noticeable.

I think out immigration policies and enforcement definitely needs a major overhaul, because while we make it very hard for educated people from Europe to immigrate to the US, send back the poor Cubans, the Mexicans just walk across and they are here. That is not right -- I think illegal immigration needs to be stopped at the border.

BUT I think we need to deal with those already here realistically, and the guest worker program Bush proposed makes a lot of sense for the reasons you and I stated and our experiences confirm.
32 posted on 01/12/2004 11:31:05 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: South40
bttt
33 posted on 01/12/2004 11:58:07 PM PST by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: South40
Mr. Bush's proposal will leave immigrants in a weak position because their visas will be tied to their employer. If they get fired, perhaps for complaining that their employer is not paying them at least minimum wage or time-and-a-half for overtime, they could face deportation.

This already happens with H1B workers. They get treated like slaves as they're dependant on their bosses for their stay. Yet another reason Bush's plan sucks.

34 posted on 01/13/2004 2:40:09 AM PST by KantianBurke (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: ETERNAL WARMING
You are right, most Americans are hard workers, but the fact remains that it is almost impossible to find Americans to do what they consider menial jobs.

I would love to hire a couple of high school kids to move sprinkler pipe during the summer irrigation season...can not find them, and if I do, they are not the best workers. Give me a 20-year old Mexican who speaks no English and he'll work his tail off for what I can afford to pay.
35 posted on 01/13/2004 3:11:51 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
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To: FairOpinion
70% of black children are born to unwed mothers.

And how do you propose to change the problems of the black underclass? Bring in another underclass that also has high illegitimacy rates and drop out rates? The jobs offered to illegals are never offered to the black inner-city youths --- and you can't say that as a race black Americans cannot work hard --- their ancestors were forced into coming here because as a race they can work hard.

The welfare state is the root problem ---- that is what politicians need to address --- black and hispanic --- and elderly Chinese welfare rates are too high. But which politician brings up the subject?

36 posted on 01/13/2004 3:47:39 AM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
The welfare state is the root problem

That is it in a nutshell. I am out of the business now but I can tell you that you will never eliminate the Mexicans in construction. I think the same is true for motels and restaurants. The only chokepoints that are controllable are welfare and citizenship.

The Mexicans that I worked with had little interest in citizenship. They wanted work and a paycheck. If citizenship was dangled in front of them who could blame them for grabbing onto it. If it were clear that they were guest workers, then they would be happy with that.

I haven't been in areas where there are huge numbers so I have to cock my eyebrow at that and take your word for what the conditions are. As for the social mores of some of them I will have to agree. The border is no place for the weak of stomach. I can tell you stories that will have you literally vomiting. But I can match them story for story with tales of underclass white or Indian atrocities to the sensibilities. We are privileged to live in a fantasy rose garden when unspeakable barbarity is just down the street.

There are limits to the government's ability to shape what we are. For better or worse this country will shape itself around realities. Those realities include Mexicans. We just need to treat them realistically.

37 posted on 01/13/2004 4:35:23 AM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: MARTIAL MONK
If laws changed in Mexico, it could begin to move to a more middle class kind of society --- that would help because many of these people would prefer to stay there.

I'm not against guest workers but they should only be brought in after recruitment efforts to underemployed American neighborhoods and the inner cities. We always accept Americans don't want the jobs --- but when are they ever posted or offered to Americans? If we bring in guest workers, they should be bused or flown to the work site, stay in housing provided by the employer, and after the harvest or project they should be bused or flown back home where their families would be waiting for them. That way they make some money, they go back to Mexico to help build that place up with that money, and the taxpayers don't get stuck paying for more expensive schools and free healthcare.
38 posted on 01/13/2004 4:55:07 AM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
Oh Gawd no. I can tell that you haven't hired from the American underclass. They are the last thing you want on a job. You do everything you can to keep them out. Especially now that a negative reference will get an the referring party sued. Look at the help wanted ads. They are couched in language that would disqualify a Saint even if the employer will take anyone short of a serial killer. You need an excuse to turn people away.

One time when I placed an ad I had a guy that came in begging for the job. He was being evicted. He couldn't feed his family. He was desperate. He had to find a job. He was in every day. My partner snickered while I made every excuse in the world not to hire the guy while the ad was still running. Finally he said "Look, if you really want to get rid of the guy and never see him again, just tell him to be here tomorrow morning at 6:00 with a pair of gloves because he's going to dig a trench." I did. It worked and has ever since.

In South Africa if you need a worker, you have to hire two because one will die of Aids within six months. In America, even with handpicked people, you have to hire four. Two will not show up the first day. At least one will be gone the first week. One will show up at his convenience for a while and then you are back to looking for four more.

The American underclass has a well developed sense of entitlement. I fired one guy because I caught him loading my tools in his trunk. He sued me for defamation of character because everyone knows that stealing tools is "part of your pay". I won but the judge chewed ME out for catching him. It was "ungentlemanly" for me to find out where my missing tools were going.

If you want to hire one or all of these "disadvantaged" folk, you have my blessing. Just don't expect them to actually work.

39 posted on 01/13/2004 5:39:16 AM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: FairOpinion
I'll never understand why NOW is the time to abandon the law of supply and demand. If Amercian workers aren't taking your jobs, its because you don't pay enough.
40 posted on 01/13/2004 5:43:40 AM PST by Wolfie
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