Border council calls Bush plan 'slap in the face'

Washington Times ^ | 1-12-04 | Jerry Seper

[JustPiper]

The National Border Patrol Council, which represents all 9,000 of the Border Patrol

[Spiff]

If we put 50 illegals on a bus, it will take 200,000 busloads to send'em back. If we send 50 busloads per day, it would take 4000 days, or 11 years, to send'em back

Then we better damn well get started soon!

[The_Eaglet]

"slap in the face to anyone who has ever tried to enforce the immigration laws of the United States." ..AND a stab in the back to all Americans.. The future is looking grim.

I agree. Pray for America.

[Spiff]

A better way might be to treat illegal employment like an IRS or OSHA violation --- start slapping the employer with all kinds of heavy fines.

Not a better way, but a way which must be employed along with enhancing border security and deporting illegals when found. If the employers no longer want to employ them, they won't want to come back after they're deported or they may leave voluntarily. Interior enforcement is the piece of our immigration control that is failing right now - making the other pieces pretty futile.

[Cultural Jihad]

Offering counter arguments is called 'bashing'? Personally, I don't even remember visiting that thread much less posting to it. The moderator says it was pulled because of too many racist comments, not because I or PRND21 (whom you forgot to offer a courtesy ping) posted there.

[Sabertooth]

No, but being realistic is certainly not a liberal idea. On the other hand, actively seeking workable and just solutions to problems is a conservative one, as is humaneness, human rights, family values, and hard work.

A "solution" which rewards lawbreakers and malfeasant politicians isn't "just," and which is opposed by most Amercians isn't "workable."

Pretenses about any of the foregoing aren't "realistic," either.

[The_Eaglet]

MCCAIN-FEINGOLD LAW LEAVES WASHINGTON A DESERTED SMOKING RUIN-Campaign Finance Reform thread-day 33 (with some opening humor)

[Spiff]

Offering counter arguments is called 'bashing'? Personally, I don't even remember visiting that thread much less posting to it. The moderator says it was pulled because of too many racist comments, not because I or PRND21 (whom you forgot to offer a courtesy ping) posted there.

Read closer. I did not say YOU or PRND21 invaded the specific thread and got it shut down, I simply used your tactics as an example. I countered your contention that it was shut down because us evil, racist, hateful, apoplectic, catatonic whackos got it shut down.

I mean, the union who represents the 9,000 Border Patrol agents who risk life and limb every day on the border says that Bush/Rove's amnesty proposal is a 'slap in the face' and your first reponse is that they're just a bunch of Communists. Typical thread-hijacking tactics. Lame guilt by very stretched association argument.

By the way, as I was posting this a Border Patrol helicopter passed overhead. This is a common occurence at my house because, as I just found out, the field just beyond the field behind my house is, right now, a virtual highway for illegal alien traffic. I've got a friend that is mapping their trails through the fields there, and their campsites, and she regularly has to call Border Patrol to come and get them. I wondered what all the increased activity was around my house. My friend would like to send you a bag of the trash they left behind and a few scoops of the feces they left in the field. Can you send me an address? It is going to be fun when the brush dries out this year and they start their fires again. This time, given their close proximity, the fires might get my home like the homes, farms, and ranches illegal alien set fires have burned in the past few years.

[MissAmericanPie]

Consider yourself lucky. The DFW area easily has two million or more illegals and Texas is running a ten billion dollar deficit. Do impeach your governor. We need to impeach Bush while we are at it.

[dirtboy]

I've got a suggestion - rather than having the new immigration thread moderateration policy become the core point of debate between sides on these threads, instead of the underlying issue, why don't both sides resolve to police themselves better to keep the debate within the boundaries that have been set. Otherwise, debate on this subject will have been killed off just as effectively as if the subject were decreed verboten.

And both sides need to realize that there is no easy answer here, that it is a charged issue, and any workable approach will acknowledge both the need to not reward illegal behavior and the fact that, after 30 years of ignoring the problem, the illegals are deeply integrated into the economy and it will take time to alter that fact in a way that does not cause serious economic disruption. And that it's not racist to realize that the flow of illegals along the Southern border causes serious problems for those who live down there.

Anyone can sling jingoisms and simplistic proposals about. It takes far more effort to work through the realities of the situation.

[Sabertooth]

If we put 50 illegals on a bus, it will take 200,000 busloads to send'em back. If we send 50 busloads per day, it would take 4000 days, or 11 years, to send'em back

Yes, but that's a static analysis.

Once the effort was underway, more savvy Illegals would get about deporting themselves.

Victory is a policy in and of itself, as we've seen in the War on Terror with Khaddafi. A sustained demonstration of American resolve soon prompts a newfound compliance in the previously intransigent.

On the other hand, appeasement, regardless of whatever "not an Amnesty" bow President Bush might want to tie around it, is also a policy, and will have the easily anticipated and previoously evidenced negative consequences.

Amnesty begets Illegals. Rewards for lawbreaking encourage more lawbreaking.

Is the Illegal Alien problem a huge mess? You bet, but making it bigger isn't an option.

[Vision]

They're right.

[jpsb]

You can find stuff here and you can put stuff there too.

[dirtboy]

Maybe we should all ping in Lead Moderator on all replies on all immmigration threads so he gets really sick of dealing with all the squabbling and shuts down the topic entirely.

Seriously, I'm sure he's watching things, he doesn't need to be brought in as a referee on every little dispute.

[Cultural Jihad]

Thanks. I re-read it. But I reject your contention that I am an open borders advocate. I fully support the efforts of the government to stop illegal immigration and applaud their work in turning over 1.5 million individuals each year for deportation procedings, so long as it continues to be done humanely and with dignity. I also support President Bush's call for a guest worker program. So should you, unless you just like to complain about illegal immigration traffic through your neighborhood.

[jpsb]

Hey hang in there guy and don't let the little people get to you down. I've been battling for a long long time, all you have to do is maintain your cool. Stop and think of a polite way to tell someone they are a jerk. It's easy and it's fun.

[The_Eaglet]

I suggest actively supporting an conservative candidate (like Michael Peroutka), because the election process will likely take longer than an impeachment campaign and process.

For what high crime or misdemeanor do you think Bush should be impeached?

[Sabertooth]

I did not say YOU or PRND21 invaded the specific thread and got it shut down, I simply used your tactics as an example. I countered your contention that it was shut down because us evil, racist, hateful, apoplectic, catatonic whackos got it shut down.

Yeah, you did, and though you and I see eye to eye to a fair degree on Illegals, to be fair, PRND21 hasn't posted on this thread at all, so it's a bit of a blindside to bring him into it in this way.

[dirtboy]

So should you, unless you just like to complain about illegal immigration traffic through your neighborhood.

I'm curious, C.J. You seem like a smart guy, you probably live in a good neighborhood. How would you and your neighbors react if a large crowd of granola types decided to start camping in the woods behind homes and leaving trash and human waste scattered about? And lighting campfires in fire season? And carrying backpacks of marijuana about? And having armed criminal smugglers among them?

You really should think before you belittle Spiff's predicament - I imagine you and your neighbors would be overwhelming the 911 system with your calls if you faced anything remotely like it in your neighborhood.

[Cultural Jihad]

My intention was not to belittle Spiff's predicament in any way, and I apologize if they came off that way. But again I reiterate, the problem of illegal immigration will continue so long as there are poor people elsewhere who want to come and work to support their families. If the field behind the field behind Spiff's house gets locked down then the flow of traffic will only move elsewhere, as it probably has many times. All that does is shift the problem somewhere else. At least with President Bush's bold proposal, there is a chance now to effectively deal with the issue. I would rather these people came here on trains and buses in an orderly manner and allow us to fingerprint them and photograph them and integrate them and tax them, than to keep chasing them through the fields and deserts.

Once there is a workable and humane way of handling these people who come to seek productive work, then anyone left who traipses through the fields would probably be up to no good.

[MissAmericanPie]

Failing his oath to protect America from enemies both foreign and domestic, failure to protect against invasion, for not only failure, but refusal, to enforce and uphold the laws of the land, and for sedition and treason regarding our sovereignty, for sedition and treason in regards to signing an illegal law that flies in the face of, and weakens, the Constitution of the USofA.

For conspiring with a known enemy of the USofA to dissolve our sovereign borders, for placing taxation without representation on the American citizen while flaunting their laws. For theft and fraud regarding receiving campaign funds from the Texas Republican Party regarding the document he read, signed, and agreed to, that denied him said funds unless his demonstrated his action and support of it's contents which also listed deporting illegals, and which he knowingly and with intent, received said funds knowing that he had no intention of honoring and in fact had already laid plans to dissolve our sovereign status before he took office as witnessed by his trip to Mexico a week after his inaguration.