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Of Gringos and Old Grudges: This Land Is Their Land
The New York Times ^ | January 9, 2004 | TIM WEINER

Posted on 01/09/2004 10:15:57 AM PST by sarcasm

MEXICO CITY, Jan. 8 — In the American South, William Faulkner once wrote, the past isn't dead. It isn't even past.

This may become truer the farther south one goes.

In the United States, almost no one remembers the war that Americans fought against Mexico more than 150 years ago. In Mexico, almost no one has forgotten.

The war cut this country in two, and "the wound never really healed," said Miguel Soto, a Mexico City historian. It took less than two years, and ended with the gringos seizing half of Mexico, taking the land that became America's Wild West: California, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and beyond.

In Mexico, they call this "the Mutilation." That may help explain why relations between the nations are sometimes so tense.

As President Bush prepares to fly down to Mexico from Texas, where the war began back in 1846, the debate here over how to relate to the United States is heating up once again.

The question of the day is the more than 20 million Mexicans who now live in the United States.

But sensitivities about sovereignty surround every thorny issue involving Americans in Mexico. Can Americans buy land? Sometimes. Drill for oil? Never. Can American officers comb airports in Mexico? Yes. Carry guns as lawmen? No. Open and close the border at will? Well, they try.

To realize that the border was fixed by war and controlled by the victors is to understand why some Mexicans may not love the 21st-century American colossus. Yet they adore the old American ideals of freedom, equality and boundless opportunity, and they keep voting, by the millions, with their feet.

In "a relationship of love and of hatred," as Mr. Soto says, bitter memories sometimes surface like old shrapnel under the skin.

Fragments of the old war stand in the slanting morning sunlight at an old convent here in Mexico City, a sanctuary seized by invading American troops in 1847, now the National Museum of Interventions, which chronicles the struggle.

"The war between Mexico and the United States has a different meaning for Mexicans and Americans," said the museum's director, Alfredo Hernández Murillo. "For Americans, it's one more step in the expansion that began when the United States was created. For Mexicans, the war meant we lost half the nation. It was very damaging, and not just because the land was lost.

"It's a symbol of Mexico's weakness throughout history in confronting the United States. For Mexicans, it's still a shock sometimes to cross the border and see the Spanish names of the places we lost."

Those places have names like Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Fe, El Paso, San Antonio; the list is long.

The war killed 13,780 Americans, and perhaps 50,000 or more Mexicans — no one knows the true number. It was the first American war led by commanders from West Point. These were men like Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman, Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis. A little more than a decade later, Grant and Sherman battled Lee and Davis in the Civil War.

Historians are still fighting over how and why the battles of the Mexican War began. Some say it was Mexico's fault for trying to stop the secession of what was then (and to some, still is) the Republic of Texas. Some say it was an imperial land grab by the president of the United States.

President James K. Polk did confide to his diary that the aim of the war was "to acquire for the United States — California, New Mexico and perhaps some other of the northern provinces of Mexico." When it was won, in February 1848, he wrote, "There will be added to the United States an immense empire, the value of which 20 years hence it would be difficult to calculate." Nine days later, prospectors struck gold in California.

Aftershocks still resonate from the Mexican War — or, as the Mexicans have it, "the American invasion." The students who walk through the National Museum of Interventions still gasp at a lithograph standing next to an American flag.

It shows Gen. Winfield Scott riding into Mexico City's national square — "the halls of Montezuma," in the words of the Marine Corps Hymn — to seize power and raise the flag. He had followed the same invasion route as the 16th-century Spanish conquerors of Mexico. The American occupation lasted 11 months.

Many of the 75,000 Mexicans living in the newly conquered American West lost their rights to own land and live as they pleased. It was well into the 20th century before much of the land was settled and civilized.

Now, that civilization is taking another turn. More than half of the 20 million Mexicans north of the border live on the land that once was theirs. Some 8.5 million live in California — a quarter of the population. Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property.

"History extracts its costs with the passage of time," said Jesús Velasco Márquez, a professor who has long studied the war. "We are the biggest minority in the United States, and particularly in the territory that once was ours."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegalscovet; immigrantlist; immigration
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To: JamesWilson
1846-1848
61 posted on 01/09/2004 6:20:53 PM PST by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: JamesWilson
WARS - Mexican American War

1846-1848

62 posted on 01/09/2004 6:23:04 PM PST by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: Spiff
but it is an invasion just the same.
Sad, but true. There is a complete failue of our government to perform one of it's most basic, Constitutionally mandated functions; to secure or borders and protect us from invasion.
63 posted on 01/09/2004 8:30:33 PM PST by GrandEagle
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To: sarcasm
Ah, the Mexican-American War. Thanks. I was thinking of the Texas War of Independence which was won at the Battle of San Jacinto on April 21, 1836.
64 posted on 01/09/2004 8:41:31 PM PST by JamesWilson
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To: sarcasm; ntnychik; autoresponder; MeeknMing
This is all liberal 'politician - speak'.

My husband and I have traveled deep into Mexico and the people are warm and friendly. Never had a problem.

We saw acres of pyramids just north of Veracruse, which had never been discovered until a North American found them!!

Naturally they are envious of our prosperity here, but seem unable to create it in their own country. They make many beautiful things, carved wood furniture, Talavera pottery, sterling jewelery, pewter serving pieces, stained glass lamps, and on and on!!

We regularly cross the border into Progresso, which is a booming tourist town now, across from Weslico, Texas.
65 posted on 01/09/2004 9:10:48 PM PST by potlatch (Whenever I feel 'blue', I start breathing again.)
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To: gubamyster
bttt
66 posted on 01/09/2004 11:33:52 PM PST by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: potlatch; MeeknMing; Travis McGee; Chad Fairbanks; DoughtyOne; Ragtime Cowgirl; Alamo-Girl; onyx; ..
Lay this on your US Rep and 2 US Senators:

Complete reciprocal rights and statute enforcement with Mexico.

The cannot buy or own land near USA borders or any waterfont property. Within 50 miles or whatever Mexico statutes say about property ownershipby "Gringos".

They cannot invest in drilling for oil in the USA.

They cannot own firearms here.

Americans must be guaranteed full rights and passage and employment and benefits in Mexico just as GW spoke of giving "guest workers" in the USA legitimacy.

Illegals in the US would have to have the same requirements to get SS as US citizens do and US citizens must be guaranteed the same from working in Mexico.

Mexico cannot restrict Americans while in Mexico or the MCLU and MAACP will nail them in courts.

On top of this, all of us in the USA with any native American blood have legal claims on Mexico including reparations.

Any failure to do this negates any US statute or policy.


67 posted on 01/10/2004 12:13:30 AM PST by autoresponder (SLICK http://0access.tripod.com/legacy.html REFRESH JUKEBOX: http://00access.tripod.com/slick.html)
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To: JamesWilson
You're welcome.
68 posted on 01/10/2004 3:53:19 AM PST by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: BeerSwillr
Swllr, the Mexicans found gold all over Califormia. They missed the big strike, but remember, there were very few of them and it's a big place.

Also remember a little war history ... it wasn't quite the walk-over most Americans now think. It was a for real fight.

69 posted on 01/10/2004 6:26:35 AM PST by Kenny Bunk
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To: navyblue
Ah yes! Let the brainwashing begin!

There's some old joke that about Mexicans complaining that the US took the part of Mexico with all the paved roads.

70 posted on 01/10/2004 6:31:31 AM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: Travis McGee
Thanks for the compliment. But I think anybody with some basic non-revisionist historical background and comon sense could pull apart most New York Times editorials.

Thats why thye hate and resent forums like this one, talk radio and FOX NEWS.

They had a field day when they were the only game intown. Thats not true anymore.

Thanks again. I enjoyed writing it.

(KARLVILLE ROVE, ARE YOU OUT THERE?? SHOW MY COMMENTARY TO JORGE BUSH!!))
71 posted on 01/10/2004 7:21:56 AM PST by ZULU (Remember the Alamo!!!!!)
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To: ZULU
Talk radio and the WWW have begun to fundamentally alter the political landscape.
72 posted on 01/10/2004 8:33:31 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: sarcasm
As if Mexico could have made anything out of the "taken" land. If all of the SW was still Mexico, it'd be the same sh!thole you see south of the border. Mexican society and culture has no concept of how to build a nation like the US, and it's laughable to think that they would have done anything productive with the SW.
73 posted on 01/10/2004 8:49:23 AM PST by realpatriot71 (legalize freedom!)
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To: Travis McGee; WackyKat; Tijeras_Slim; MattinNJ
To: Tijeras_Slim; archy; MattinNJ

I gotta write faster before my novel is overtaken by events!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: WackyKat

Exactly. An aggressive Mexican irredentist movement is beginning to gain momentum And it will get far worse. You're going to want to read my next novel, "Domestic Enemies."

Any ballpark guess when we might have *Domestic Enemies* in hand?

-archy-/-

74 posted on 01/10/2004 10:23:56 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: archy
If you find anybody who knows the answer to that, please tell me. I haven't got a clue. A year, minimum. EFAD took 3.
75 posted on 01/10/2004 12:28:29 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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