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Of Gringos and Old Grudges: This Land Is Their Land
The New York Times ^ | January 9, 2004 | TIM WEINER

Posted on 01/09/2004 10:15:57 AM PST by sarcasm

MEXICO CITY, Jan. 8 — In the American South, William Faulkner once wrote, the past isn't dead. It isn't even past.

This may become truer the farther south one goes.

In the United States, almost no one remembers the war that Americans fought against Mexico more than 150 years ago. In Mexico, almost no one has forgotten.

The war cut this country in two, and "the wound never really healed," said Miguel Soto, a Mexico City historian. It took less than two years, and ended with the gringos seizing half of Mexico, taking the land that became America's Wild West: California, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and beyond.

In Mexico, they call this "the Mutilation." That may help explain why relations between the nations are sometimes so tense.

As President Bush prepares to fly down to Mexico from Texas, where the war began back in 1846, the debate here over how to relate to the United States is heating up once again.

The question of the day is the more than 20 million Mexicans who now live in the United States.

But sensitivities about sovereignty surround every thorny issue involving Americans in Mexico. Can Americans buy land? Sometimes. Drill for oil? Never. Can American officers comb airports in Mexico? Yes. Carry guns as lawmen? No. Open and close the border at will? Well, they try.

To realize that the border was fixed by war and controlled by the victors is to understand why some Mexicans may not love the 21st-century American colossus. Yet they adore the old American ideals of freedom, equality and boundless opportunity, and they keep voting, by the millions, with their feet.

In "a relationship of love and of hatred," as Mr. Soto says, bitter memories sometimes surface like old shrapnel under the skin.

Fragments of the old war stand in the slanting morning sunlight at an old convent here in Mexico City, a sanctuary seized by invading American troops in 1847, now the National Museum of Interventions, which chronicles the struggle.

"The war between Mexico and the United States has a different meaning for Mexicans and Americans," said the museum's director, Alfredo Hernández Murillo. "For Americans, it's one more step in the expansion that began when the United States was created. For Mexicans, the war meant we lost half the nation. It was very damaging, and not just because the land was lost.

"It's a symbol of Mexico's weakness throughout history in confronting the United States. For Mexicans, it's still a shock sometimes to cross the border and see the Spanish names of the places we lost."

Those places have names like Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Fe, El Paso, San Antonio; the list is long.

The war killed 13,780 Americans, and perhaps 50,000 or more Mexicans — no one knows the true number. It was the first American war led by commanders from West Point. These were men like Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman, Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis. A little more than a decade later, Grant and Sherman battled Lee and Davis in the Civil War.

Historians are still fighting over how and why the battles of the Mexican War began. Some say it was Mexico's fault for trying to stop the secession of what was then (and to some, still is) the Republic of Texas. Some say it was an imperial land grab by the president of the United States.

President James K. Polk did confide to his diary that the aim of the war was "to acquire for the United States — California, New Mexico and perhaps some other of the northern provinces of Mexico." When it was won, in February 1848, he wrote, "There will be added to the United States an immense empire, the value of which 20 years hence it would be difficult to calculate." Nine days later, prospectors struck gold in California.

Aftershocks still resonate from the Mexican War — or, as the Mexicans have it, "the American invasion." The students who walk through the National Museum of Interventions still gasp at a lithograph standing next to an American flag.

It shows Gen. Winfield Scott riding into Mexico City's national square — "the halls of Montezuma," in the words of the Marine Corps Hymn — to seize power and raise the flag. He had followed the same invasion route as the 16th-century Spanish conquerors of Mexico. The American occupation lasted 11 months.

Many of the 75,000 Mexicans living in the newly conquered American West lost their rights to own land and live as they pleased. It was well into the 20th century before much of the land was settled and civilized.

Now, that civilization is taking another turn. More than half of the 20 million Mexicans north of the border live on the land that once was theirs. Some 8.5 million live in California — a quarter of the population. Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property.

"History extracts its costs with the passage of time," said Jesús Velasco Márquez, a professor who has long studied the war. "We are the biggest minority in the United States, and particularly in the territory that once was ours."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegalscovet; immigrantlist; immigration
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1 posted on 01/09/2004 10:15:57 AM PST by sarcasm
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To: Travis McGee
ping
2 posted on 01/09/2004 10:17:40 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Death before dhimmi.)
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To: gubamyster
ping
3 posted on 01/09/2004 10:20:26 AM PST by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
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To: All
Free Republic!
It's a wonderful site!
Please help keep it that way. Make a donation!

4 posted on 01/09/2004 10:20:35 AM PST by Support Free Republic (If Woody had gone straight to the police, this would never have happened!)
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To: sarcasm; Tijeras_Slim; Travis McGee
1) To be logically consistent, if the Mexicans assert a claim to the SW U.S based on it being theirs first, they would then haveto give it back to Spain

2) The Mexicans routinely murder Guatemalans, Costa Ricans, etc... who cross their southern border. Every contractor I talk to who uses these guys would tell you they would rather have Guatemalans work for them then Mexicans.

5 posted on 01/09/2004 10:24:01 AM PST by MattinNJ
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To: sarcasm
explain why relations between the nations are sometimes so tense.
come on then... Try and take it back.
6 posted on 01/09/2004 10:24:05 AM PST by GrandEagle
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To: sarcasm
So I guess this is the liberal media's beginning of the psychological brainwashing of the American public.

Our people simply have to understand that this land really belongs to them and we are illegally occupying it!

Ah yes! Let the brainwashing begin!

7 posted on 01/09/2004 10:24:20 AM PST by navyblue
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To: sarcasm
Now, that civilization is taking another turn. More than half of the 20 million Mexicans north of the border live on the land that once was theirs. Some 8.5 million live in California — a quarter of the population. Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property.

Perhaps the US better rethink about how the Albanians are attempting to steal Kosovo from Serbia.

Although I certainly wouldn't have any object to handing southern California to Mexico, so long as they take San Francisco in the deal!

8 posted on 01/09/2004 10:29:06 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: sarcasm
Nine days later, prospectors struck gold in California.

As if to say what exactly? That mexicans would have discovered the gold? Ha.

What was the last thing Jesus said to the mexicans?

Name all your kids after me and don't do anything until I get back.

9 posted on 01/09/2004 10:30:44 AM PST by BeerSwillr (Profanity free since 2003-12-17 20:41:45)
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To: sarcasm
Let's see, the Spanish stole the land from the Indians, we took it from them, and we are the usurpers? Methinks the only problem with Mexico, is they are ethnically cleansing their country. Time to put up a wall, even if it is only electronic, and stop the flow North. Deport illegals by fining employers huge amounts when caught, and emptying our jails of those caught breaking the law, straight into Mexico. They will quit coming, when they can no longer get free medical and schooling, and can no longer work............problem solved. If we then need workers(after loosening laws to allow children to work again, and ridding ourselves of minimum wage laws), we can allow them in as need be. Then again, I am not running for election, and am free to do what is right, not having to worry about kissing a**es. Too bad being a leader, and doing what is right, is only possible if you have no power.
10 posted on 01/09/2004 10:30:48 AM PST by jeremiah (Sunshine scares all of them, for they all are cockaroaches)
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To: sarcasm
"In the United States, almost no one remembers the war that Americans fought against Mexico more than 150 years ago."

Sums up why this country works and their country wallows in the 3rd world. We move ahead and create. They bitch and moan about a past that's almost 2 centuries old.
11 posted on 01/09/2004 10:34:12 AM PST by KantianBurke (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: sarcasm
If the Mexicans are hostile foreign nationals nursing a 150 year old grudge, perhaps we should be a little more circumspect about inviting them into our living rooms...hmmmm?
12 posted on 01/09/2004 10:36:13 AM PST by Spok
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To: sarcasm
...To realize that the border was fixed by war and controlled by the victors is to understand...

That the Mexicans must have won, because we certainly have no control over the border.
13 posted on 01/09/2004 10:36:29 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The only thing standing between the rule of law and anarchy is that conservatives are good losers!)
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To: KantianBurke
Perpetual victimhood.
14 posted on 01/09/2004 10:38:01 AM PST by onedoug
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To: *immigrant_list; A Navy Vet; Lion Den Dan; Free the USA; Libertarianize the GOP; madfly; B4Ranch; ..
ping
15 posted on 01/09/2004 10:38:17 AM PST by gubamyster
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
...But sensitivities about sovereignty surround every thorny issue involving Americans in Mexico. Can Americans buy land? Sometimes. Drill for oil? Never. Can American officers comb airports in Mexico? Yes. Carry guns as lawmen? No. Open and close the border at will? Well, they try...


No, they don't try.
The only thing American citizens are good for these days is siezing their earnings to prop up every half-witted scheme on earth.

16 posted on 01/09/2004 10:39:09 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The only thing standing between the rule of law and anarchy is that conservatives are good losers!)
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To: sarcasm
The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof...they only thing anyone is entitled to is what God gives them and what He lets them keep....

Everyone tries to use any emotional appeal they can faulty logic force and lies notwithstanding to get what they want or steal what they want and then try to keep it...by those same means..

Mexicans got nothing coming...but mean to take everything they can get their hands on...
Worst part is ..they have allies in CONUS willing to help them....for a price....
17 posted on 01/09/2004 10:41:40 AM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: sarcasm
Nearly half the people of New Mexico have roots in old Mexico. Mexico is, in a sense, slowly reoccupying its former property. "History extracts its costs with the passage of time," said Jesús Velasco Márquez, a professor who has long studied the war. "We are the biggest minority in the United States, and particularly in the territory that once was ours."

Exactly. An aggressive Mexican irredentist movement is beginning to gain momentum

And it will get far worse

18 posted on 01/09/2004 10:42:00 AM PST by WackyKat
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To: GrandEagle
They have almost completed the task of retaking it.
No resistance will be offered.
19 posted on 01/09/2004 10:43:05 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The only thing standing between the rule of law and anarchy is that conservatives are good losers!)
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To: jeremiah
Furthermore, the Mexicans didn't really conquer much of the southwest in the first place. The Mexicans may have laid claim to Comanche territory in west Texas and eastern New Mexico, but they never settled there. They couldn't defeat the Comanches. Thus, any claim of ownership to these territories is false.
20 posted on 01/09/2004 10:43:07 AM PST by Our man in washington
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