Posted on 01/09/2004 12:36:43 AM PST by JohnHuang2
HOMELAND IN SECURITY
Feds packing heat on planes: A safety issue?
Concerns raised that EPA, FDIC agents carry guns, while pilots restricted
By Ron Strom
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com
Though commercial airline pilots must go through a strict, complex process to be allowed to carry a handgun in the cockpit, federal agents – from agencies such as the Department of Education and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation – routinely carry guns into airports and onto airplanes – a fact that raises safety concerns with pilots.
"It's just crazy," Capt. Greg Rice, a pilot with American Airlines, told WorldNetDaily. "[Federal agents] don't need guns on my airplane or in the terminal."
Rice explained employees with several federal agencies routinely carry their concealed guns onto commercial flights when they have "official duty status." The agents fill out forms with the ticket agents, which then are forwarded to the gate agents and on to the pilots, Rice said. That informs the pilot an armed federal agent will be flying with him.
Dave Adams of the Federal Air Marshal Service confirmed such federal agents initially check in at ticket counters to present their identification.
"Usually the agents will poke their head in the cockpit and say hi" before the plane takes off, Rice said.
He emphasized these armed agents are not designated federal air marshals, but come from many different agencies in the government. A fellow pilot of Rice recently flew with an armed employee of the Environmental Protection Agency.
Rice says he has no problem with the agents having concealed weapons if they are needed at their destination, but there is no reason they need them on an airplane. They should be in their checked baggage, he said.
"Why would a Department of Education official need a gun on my airplane?" Rice asked. "To guard test scores?"
Rice says he and other pilots have complained to the airlines, but management says their hands are tied due to federal regulations that allow the feds to carry firearms onboard.
"They've been getting a lot of complaints from pilots," he said.
Rice, who spent 21 years in the military and is an expert marksman, pointed out the irony of a policy that prevents him from protecting his plane with a firearm without an extensive Federal Flight Deck Officer training program, at his own expense, while countless federal agents are allowed guns on planes. He is scheduled to take the training in April.
Rice flew on Christmas Day during a heightened state of alert around the world. He said if he had received notice a federal agent named "Akmed Ahmed" was flying on his plane with a gun, he would have protested.
"I'm not going to let Akmed Ahmed fly on my plane with a gun," he said.
"As the captain, I am responsible for the safety of 142 passengers and six crewmembers," he told WND, "and I am not given any information on the armed passengers' level of training, experience, mental or emotional stability or if they hit the airport bar before getting on my aircraft."
Rice questioned the process of filling out paperwork to board a plane armed and expressed concern about the possibility of terrorists "falsifying the forms."
"Are the forms under lock and key?" he asked.
The captain pointed out even when he completes the armed-pilot training program, he still will be prohibited from carrying a gun when he is "deadheading" on a plane, traveling to an airport to catch a plane he is scheduled to pilot.
Said Rice, "Even though I know aircraft systems, airline crew procedures and am a trained marksman, the Department of Education worker has easy and instant access to a gun in-flight, and I will not."
Indeed, as WorldNetDaily reported, pilots have complained about the armed-pilots program instituted last year, saying after the training they are subject to guidelines for carrying guns through airports and even in cockpits that are more restrictive than those for other armed federal agents, who have far fewer limitations and can access their weapons much more readily.
The Transportation Security Administration, which enforces the regulations governing firearms on planes, would say very little about the process of credentialing federal and non-federal law-enforcement personnel who board jets armed, citing security reasons.
Said spokesman Darrin Kayser: "There's nothing we can comment on the process involved. We don't want anyone to be able to gain that system and develop false credentials and be able to know the process."
Kayser told WND the information about the process "is considered SSI – Sensitive Secret Information."
When asked why an agent from the Department of Education might need to carry a concealed weapon, a spokesman from the agency cited the example of an investigator probing a trade school under suspicion of student-loan fraud.
Rapid decompression. Years ago I worked at an Aeromedical Research Lab on an Air Force Base, and their outer-space studies proved that an astronaut had three minutes to react if his spacesuit was pierced.
Although the atmospheric differences between outer-space and 30,000 feet would be somewhat different, the same principles apply. Once the outside pressure equalized with the inside pressure, the lack of oxygen would be the only major concern. That's why those little oxygen mask thingy's drop down. Unlike in the movies, a single bullet hole does not result in a row of seats being sucked out.
As for the pilots complaints about having armed agents on board who have to pass less strenuous tests than they is required of them, I agree with their complaint.
OTOH, if the door to the captains' cabins have been upgraded so that they are impenetrable, then the captains have little grounds for complaints.
The bottom line that even our homeland security seems to miss is that 9-11 will never happen again. Passengers will never again sit idly by, believing their captors that they will be safe. Passengers will attack en masse, believing that if they are destined to go down, they will at least go down fighting.
And if a few unknown passengers are carrying, then all the better, because it is the unknown element that might deter future attempts.
For once I beat you to the draw, (but I had to wait until Oh-Dark-Thirty to do it.)
Air marshals are on less than 5% of domestic flights. The next Atta has a better than 95% chance of boarding a domestic American plane with no air marshal, if he avoids flights into and out of NYC and DC.
(Most of the marshals are on the DC flights, essentially guarding our ultra-esteemed and extremely important politicians. We commoners can do without.)
Excepting, perhaps, for a hijack of an almost-empty plane.
LOL!
Are these the same bozos that staged a "sick out" shortly after 9/11 because they got tired of working so much?
The same bunch that had the standards lowered significantly (including the marksmanship test) so that the feds could meet their recruitment numbers?
Or the same "tough bunch" that accidently left their guns in the airplane bathroom on at least two occassions?
How about the AM who had a negligent discharge in a hotel room while between flights?
One Air Marshall was so dang tough he even flunked the psych exam to become a Philadelphia police office. This particular Air Marshall would later become famous for "hijacking" a plane because a passenger smarted off to a stewardess. He forced the passengers to keep their hands above their heads, and harassed one passenger of Indian descent who was a retired US Army officer.
Yeah, I feel great knowing these "tough guys" are on planes.
BTW, what percentage of flights do you think they are on?
From the standpoint of the federal gov't, this has nothing to with people flying armed who have passed strenous tests and background checks.
If it did, they would allow private citizens who could pass similar tests to fly armed.
Rather, it has everything to do with increasing the disparity between the almighty federal goverment and us lowly peasants.
Uh... no they don't (at least not Air Marshalls), if what I've read on other forums is correct.
But even if it's not frangible, it's not going to bring down a plane.
Nonsense. Planes already have holes in them that are far larger than any bullet hole. The air system is built to pressurize the plane even as air escapes through those holes, and in fact, the system is robust enough to offset the effect of even more holes.
747s would remain pressurized even if a window blew out in midflight.
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