The Bush Proposal (Interesting article by Linda Chavez on the Immigration Proposal)

Town Hall ^ | Jan 8, 2004 | Linda Chavez

[PhiKapMom]

The Bush proposal

Linda Chavez

January 8, 2004

President Bush announced a sweeping new immigration reform proposal this week that could become a hot-button issue in the November election. For months, insiders have hinted that the president would propose a new guest worker program aimed at allowing more foreign workers into the country on a temporary basis. Widely favored by the American business community, a guest worker program would allow employers to fill jobs in industries that routinely experience shortages of workers willing to do the often difficult, dangerous jobs Americans shun -- at least at wages that allow employers to remain in business.

But the guest worker provisions won't be the most controversial part of the administration's new proposal. Although some groups that want to limit immigration altogether -- such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) -- oppose guest worker plans, even such staunch restrictionists as Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) are on record supporting the idea of guest workers. The real battle will be over what to do with those millions of illegal aliens who are already here.

Some 8-12 million illegal aliens reside in the United States now -- up three- or four-fold from a decade ago. An estimated 60 percent of these are from Mexico alone, and it is no accident that the Bush plan was announced in anticipation of the president's meeting with his Mexican counterpart, President Vicente Fox, next week. The White House announced less than a week before the Fox meeting that millions of illegal aliens from Mexico and elsewhere will be allowed, over time, to earn legal status in the U.S., so long as they have been working continuously, paid taxes and not broken other laws. The plan will impose some penalties on these workers -- most likely fines similar to those proposed in legislation sponsored by Republican Representatives Jeff Flake and Jim Kolbe and Senator John McCain, all from Arizona.

These proposals may not offer perfect justice -- who can blame those who resent rewarding "line jumpers" with legal status while millions of other would-be immigrants wait patiently to enter the country legally. But "earned legalization" is probably the best solution to a largely intractable problem. There is no way that the United States can find and deport 8-12 million illegal aliens in this country, and even if we could, we would do more harm than good.

The American economy depends on these workers, who, along with legal immigrants, contributed significantly to the economic boon of the 1990s. If FAIR could wave a magic wand and make these illegal aliens disappear overnight, the rest of us would suffer by having to pay more for everything from the food we put on the table to the houses in which we live. Our office buildings wouldn't get cleaned, our crops wouldn't get picked, our meat wouldn't get processed, nor our tables cleaned when we go out to eat.

Sure, we could double wages to attract American-born workers to some of these jobs, but at even twice the salary it would be difficult to fill the nastiest of these tasks, like processing poultry. But why would we want American workers, who we've spent trillions of dollars educating for 13 or 14 years, on average, to perform jobs that require only the most minimal skills? Even if we got rid of all illegal aliens in the U.S., these jobs would likely go to foreign workers, like it or not.

What sense does it make to insist that we get rid of the very people doing these jobs now in order to make way for other foreign workers to take them under a new guest worker plan? It makes a lot more sense to figure out how to get those illegal aliens already employed at these jobs to come in from the shadows and become part of the legal system. They should pay a penalty for having broken the law in the first place by sneaking into the country or overstaying their visas, but it is better for all of us if they earn their way toward legal status than remain in the illegal netherworld where they now hide.

Linda Chavez is President of the Center for Equal Opportunity, a Townhall.com member organization.

[WOSG]

I think a fence is a practical component in border security that has worked in some border areas already and could be used comprehensively on the southern border ... Manframe65 disagrees ... He says:

"A man alone is a target"

LOL, these are migrants, not snipers. Geez.

"New tunnels are being dug all the time, probably
faster than we can find them."

Fine. You cant smuggle 850,000 people a year (do the math, that is 2,000 people a DAY) with unreliable tunnels that motion sensors, guards and UAVs could quickly uncover.
It'll turn the flood into a trickle. Definitely beats the heck out of trying to use pure manpower rather than manpower + common sense to secure the border.

As for the 'value of penetration' - that's what the other 11 points of immigration law enforcement are about. See my post #364. Ending the market for illegal alien labor can happen: through better deportation procedures, local enforcement of laws, and verifiable employment documentation where employess and employers are held accountable.

The problem begins at the border but doesnt end there.

[Reagan Man]

Its slightly less then 1-in-5 American's, or 20% of 292 million = 58 foreign born.

[WOSG]

Okay, so you have no criticism of the ideas themselves, they are sound and good, you just dont think they will pass.

But why not?
The majority of Americans support tighter immigration.
Amnesty is opposed by a 2 to 1 margin.
(This from a Zogby poll in recent years.)

Many components have support in Congress. The proposal to end chain migration was the proposal of the Jordan commission, the bi-partisan commission in the mid-1990s that looked comprehensively at immigration.

As for liberal Judges, while you are right that they willingly gut immigration law and create loophopes, their powers in this matter are defined by Congress. That is what eliminating EOIR is about: It is redundant overhead within the bureaucracy that serves no other purpose except to make it harder to deport criminal aliens and other 'administrative removal orders'. Congress can change that!
And the end result would be better Homeland Security (do you know John Lee Malvo was a case of such abuse!?!?)

I would say these bills and ideas are more popular than some of Bush's environmental policies, which I like but which I know dont do well in polling. They are just more "populist" and not desired by the "cheap labor" wing of the party. (I am for immigration, but here in the high-tech sector Ive seen enough H1B abuse that I know the business interests are not always looking out for the American workers interests.) The difference is the President is willing to use up political capital to do a few things there.

Why not get him to REALLY support immigration law enforcement and have him lead on this issue? It will not cost him any votes and passing reforms would visibly improve immigration and homeland security soon.

[WOSG]

"Not only that, but you also failed to take under consideration the negative aspects of the removal of millions of workers
from our work force, and legal or not, these millions workers who may very well be nearly impossible to replace without
tremendous harm to the economy."

First, I've proposed pairing it with the guest worker program so that fear is unfounded. Second,
Given the 6% unemployment rate, ie 15 million unemployed,
and given how long it would take to set reforms in motion,
there is alot of time to adjust. It begs the question: Do you really think the nation is better off with illegal immigration than not? I for one dont.

[4CJ]

You are correct....but that only means that YOUR hospital bill will simply be inflated to make up the difference. It's a "no brainer".

Exactly.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Do you really think the nation is better off with illegal immigration than not?"

That's such a silly question, it's like asking "would the world be a better place with cancer, or without?"

The fact is that cancer exists, as do ten million illegal immigrants in the US.

Deal with the reality of the issue, rather than the hypothetical solutions we can all drum up on sleepless nights spent online.

[PhiKapMom]

The list was in my AOL Mail Waiting to be Sent folder -- AOL has had to be reloaded twice because I was sent virus' that got through. I now have it in hard copy and two more people have the list. The first time my whole computer crashed from a virus which wiped it out entirely and I had to go back to a very old list.

If people would quit sending virus', then maybe computers would quit crashing. Sorry it inconvenienced you.

[Puddleglum]

I saw a piece last evening re: the housing market. It was pointed out that the job paid $8/hr. and if wages had to be raised (to attract "legals"), the house would cost $10,000-$15,000 more.

I would be interested to see if the contractors who have been hiring illegals have been passing the savings on to the consumer. I wonder if the difference between the contractors' salaries and their laborers has increased or decreased since illegals filled their jobs? In other words, is the house cheaper or the profit margin higher?

[PhiKapMom]

You are talking to someone who is not in favor of the military patrolling our borders -- not with the manpower shortage we now have in the active force and have to rely on the Guard and Reserves.

There is not enough manpower to go around. Not sure what the solution to the problem is for sealing the borders, but there has to be one.

We have to do something to stop the coyotes from putting people at risk by offering them a green card, work, and SSN for a lot of money to get the illegals across the border. Stop the coyotes and you stop a lot of illegal border crossings. How do you do that? I have no idea but someone must have some idea who these coyotes are.

[PhiKapMom]

I agree with your analysis. What I like best about the Chavez article that it has opened up some really great discussion on here and I think some very good ideas have come forward.

Now we need to contact our Representative and two Senators and let them know our ideas and what we support and do not support since Congress will be the final authority in what is in the bill.

[PhiKapMom]

If the final bill includes a few things, I'll go along with it. First, all unpaid back taxes should be collected from "our guests" and the cost of all recieved benefits should be repaid to the providing government. Second, any now-legal guest worker must remain employed and should be inelligable for unemployment benefits...period. If they can't find work they can find the door! Lastly, any criminal act must be met with immediate expulsion of the worker and his family, citizens by birth or not!

Those are outstanding suggestions and I agree with them -- in fact, I plan to include them in my email to my two Senators and my Representative.

[PhiKapMom]

This seems all but insoluble unless Mexico and the rest of the Southern Hemisphere gets its act together socially and economically.

Exactly and why I think Pres Bush should tell Fox in no uncertain terms to get his act together and end corruption/graft in Mexico and provide an atmosphere that will make Mexicans want to stay in Mexico and not come to the US. Fox has done little of nothing IMO to make a better Country for his people. If he has, someone please point it out to me.

[MainFrame65]

"these are migrants, not snipers."

But their guides (coyotes) usually are armed.

Look, I am not trying to say that a fence has no value, but we would most want to keep out the spies, terrorists, fleeing criminals, and drug smugglers, as well as the ones seeking work, welfare, education, or medical care. These hard cases have not had to risk killing with the borders as porous as they have been. But tighten it up, and we could have some dead border guards.

As for tunnels, they have found several tunnels under the border near San Diego, probably mostly used for drugs, but with access likely available for the right price. The Israelis have found dozens of tunnels between Gaza and Egypt, used primarily for terrorists, weapons, and explosives.

19 bad guys came in - legally - and did more damage than has ever been done to us by any other small group. These are the ones I worry most about.

[Hattie]

Yes you are right. They are building hundreds of new two story homes behind me right now. And the workers are Hispanics. My husband and I commented tonight that they would all stand empty if wages had to be paid to Americans for this. Ordinary people would not be able to afford new homes again.

[MainFrame65]

"You are talking to someone who is not in favor of the military patrolling our borders -- not with the manpower shortage we now have in the active force and have to rely on the Guard and Reserves.

There is not enough manpower to go around. Not sure what the solution to the problem is for sealing the borders, but there has to be one."

I do not disagree with you - and I do not have a good answer. I was really arguing that militarizing the border is NOT the solution, due to the manpower required and the difficulty of truly sealing the border, although we REALLY need to do a far better job than we do now.

I have to think about the President's proposal a lot more, but I believe that sorting the sneakovers into the refugees and the really bad guys, and identifying and tracking every one of them that we can, might be a good start.

[WOSG]

"Look, I am not trying to say that a fence has no value,"

Then we are in agreement. It's a helpful addition to border security. At $200 million or so, its cheaper than 100,000 troops.

" ... but we would most want to keep out the spies, terrorists, fleeing criminals, and drug smugglers, as well as the ones seeking work, welfare, education, or medical care. These hard cases have not had to risk killing with the borders as porous as they have been. But tighten it up, and we could have some dead border guards."

You realize of course that a fence will reduce dangers and deaths, since it is easier to determine if people are clearly intending to evade law enforcement and since the smugglers using the remote deserts will not leave people out there with risk of death, if the borders are more consistently protected. IMHO this makes a fence far more humane than having heavily armed people running around randomly.

"19 bad guys came in - legally - and did more damage than has ever been done to us by any other small group. These are the ones I worry most about."

I get very frustrated by these kinds of comments. They came in using loopholesin immigration enforcement we could easily close BUT HAVENT!! So we propose something that would help, and it is denigrated as not being the be-all and end-all solution. Well guess what, NOTHING is. I've proposed a lot more than a fence btw (see my other posts).

Yes, Israel faces tunnels too ... but THEY are building a fence anyway. A lot of criticism about it too - but did you here that the Israeli Govt is sure that a bombing attempt in October was thwarted by the fence? Well, a fence can thwart lots of smuggling too.

[WOSG]

Addendum: I misread your last comment.

"19 bad guys came in - legally - ... "

This is actually untrue. the 19 *violated* a number of immigration laws and took advantage of amnesty and loopholes in immigration through fraudulent means to stay in the US.
These flaws HAVE NOT BEEN CORRECTED btw.

[WOSG]

"Do you really think the nation is better off with illegal immigration than not?" That's such a silly question, it's like asking "would the world be a better place with cancer, or without?"

Not a silly question to Democrats and others in the open borders factions, who clearly think America is better off with 10 million illegal immigrants here, than not.

And BTW, why is it a silly question to ask if the world is better off without cancer? It's a realistic prospect for our future - no cancer, no illegal immigration. Now the question is: How do we get from here to there?

I gave 14 points to end the mess. Practical, realistic, possible, beneficial (IMHO). Funny, you still havent given specific feedback on my specific proposals.

[PhiKapMom]

I cringed whenI first heard about the proposal but the longer I have had to think about it, the more sense it makes. Like you, I like the idea of being able to track these illegals and get a handle on the problem.

Know military is not the answer but not sure what is. I do know one thing, Fox from Mexico needs to taken to the woodshed about his lack of action in turning Mexico into a Country with an economy that can support its own people and that will do more for the illegal immigration then anything I can think of right now. Fox has been one huge disappointment IMO.

[krasdorf]

I think the site that was mentioned on Hannity's show was securebordersusa.com, but I know SECUREBORDERS.COM is also a good site to read recent articles about immigration and open border issues.

Just heard about this website on Sean Hannity's show: SecureBorders.com
The Defense of the Nation begins with the Defense of its Borders.