Bush immigration "principles" mirror Cornyn bill (Tom Delay Has "Severe Reservations" About Plan)

Associated Press ^ | Jan. 07, 2004 | Associated Press

[Pubbie]

Look - this plan isn't great but it isn't going to be the end of the world because it doesn't grant citizenship.

We'll have to wait till 2008 till we get a border control candidate to finally lock up the borders.

But for the next four years this Temporary Guest Worker program won't bring the end of civilization.

[Mike Darancette]

This program would (if passed and enforced with teeth), finally get some control of illegal immigration and the people that hire them.

You're right on point. Something has to be done. If done right when the smoke clears only about 1-2 million now illegals will be able to take advantage of the program.

[Richard Axtell]

The end of the United States won't bring the end of civilization, and a stop gap plan that can't work won't forstall the end of the United States either.

[Tauzero]

"The Cornyn proposal would give guest workers the same labor rights granted Americans and would set up accounts where employers would deposit money drawn from workers' wages in lieu of withholding the money for Social Security or Medicare."

Oh, great, illegals get to keep their money but I don't get to keep mine?

What is this, a back door to privatizing SS?!

[Pubbie]

"a stop gap plan that can't work won't forstall the end of the United States either."

If the situation doesn't change for the next 40 years then you are right.

However I think we'll have control of the Borders sometime between 2004 and 2044.

[Pubbie]

Bush is going to propose some privatization of Social Security for his 2004 campaign.

[Richard Axtell]

If we do regain control, it will be inspite and not because of the current leadership, and that includes the entire Democrat party, which is more the root of the problem than anything I can think of.

[joesnuffy]

Outsource jobs to slave labor nations and import cheap labor to take the jobs in which Americans can barely make ends meet...
Yippie...

[Pubbie]

"If we do regain control, it will be inspite and not because of the current leadership, and that includes the entire Democrat party, which is more the root of the problem than anything I can think of."

Bush won't be President forever.

I remember my father (Who was a political refugee from the Soviet Union) thought that after Nixon left office, the Soviets would destroy the world because Ford was weak on National Defence.

But 7 years later Reagan became President and the rest is history.

[Tauzero]

A most excellent, thoughtful post. Kudos.

[Cold Heat]

but where is the stick?

Hmmmmmmmm.............

ya know what?

"Where's the stick" will be a great slogan as we debate with each other and e-mail our reps. regarding the proposal over the next couple of years.(yes, it will likely take that long, if it is not tabled altogether)

As to the proposal, it had everything in it that I expected and perhaps a bit more.

If you look at it objectively, it really is nothing more than one more VISA category for un-skilled labor. In exchange for dropping the sanction against the illegal when he/she turns themselves in to get the work permit. (The sanction currently is a prohibition from entering the country for a minimum of three years to life, depending on the case and the number of repeated violations. That is current law).

So what he proposes is to lift that sanction in exchange for coming in and telling us what we want to know.

Where is he/she working? how long? What are the working conditions? Do you pay social security? Do you have taxes withheld? where is the rest of your family? how did you get here? Where were you born? Etc,etc,etc.......

With that info the average illegal employer is screwed. The illegal person can be vetted by INS/FBI etc. The job will be verified, and the immediate family identified and we now have a address.

The other carrot I suppose is that if qualified, they will no longer be hassled and will be under U.S. labor protection standards. (Minimum wage, etc.)

He said/indicated/warned that the borders would be tightened up. (I felt like he wants a couple thousand new guards) He also indicated/warned of increased deportations of the un-qualified as well as the criminal types. he phrased it a few ways but the message to Fox was clear.

Not really very complicated yet, but here are the complications and those complications were not addressed because Congress will need to address them.

Drivers licenses? he said that permit holder would be entitled the all the usual privileges as a normal worker. (I wonder about the details)

Children? what do we do if a family has only one qualified worker? Do they all stay? Do the wife and kids go back? Will workers who obtain permits in Mexico or where ever, do they get to bring there families?

This is basically the questions that bothered me. There are a few others, but if these things can be addressed fairly, (to us and them) then I believe this program will go a long way toward solving much of our border problem.

Mexico needs to be on board with this as well. It is not going to be a easy sell and it is likely to take a great deal of time.

The 86 bill took four years to pass and they gutted the thing. that is why it was impossible to enforce.

I am also not real happy with the Unemployment idea. I wonder how that will work exactly.

I liked the general outline however we need more info on the stick for sure.

[MJY1288]

Well, when I think about the fact that all we do when we apprehend an illegal alien, in this country, right now, is to give him or her a free ride back to the border. Any justice delivered is a bigger stick than we offer now.

[therut]

I think what Bush outlined is a good place to start to get control of things. There is no practical or political way to deport all the illegal aliens. I like the idea of this not guarenteening a fast track to citizenship. It does give incentives for them to return home(their SS taxes and tax free saving plan money will go home with them) They will not be on our SS plan. We will be able to deport them if they break the law, or quit working. All this will have to be backed up with good control of the borders which Bush mentioned but did not specificly say what would be done. But he said it must be done. I like the plan over all. It all depends on what congress does with it. I have no problem with immigration espically of mexicans (they work hard, are religious, take good care of and love their children----I see many of them in my medical practice and they are alot more polite than some home grown citizens). We must make inroads with this new immigrant group which I think this will do. Sure the lefty groups will want more but I think even the majority of legal mexican immigrants do not like illegal immigration. Lets see what happens before we get so upset.

[Cold Heat]

Well, the current law is but a three year probation. Then they can apply for a green card legally.

So you see, the Bush plan is only waiving a three year sanction.(nothing) They have a fifteen year wait for a green card in any case. Unless they increase dramatically the number of cards.

It is currently 50,000 per year.

This is way far from any amnesty. (three year probation waived) (no citizenship)

If the sky were falling, with the numbers we have now, it would have already fell but we have got to do something soon.(or it will fall)

Bush is a "do" president. he has proved it time and time again and has only been there for three short years.

I cannot help but admire him.

[lainde]

bttt