President Bush Proposes New Temporary Worker Program [Transcript]

The White House ^ | Jan 7, 2004 | President George W. Bush

[CalKat]

In Bush's speech, he DID NOT say that workers had to return home to renew their blue cards. He said the blue cards are renewable, but he specifically DID NOT say they had to return home to renew them. Your #278 refers to his statement that they will return permanently -- which is not returning to renew their blue cards, which implicitly implies they will be returning, which is the absolute opposite of returning home permanently. Sheesh.

[McGavin999]

OK, one more time (sigh). A law which has not been enforced for decades can be fought in court as selective enforcement. I want us to go after the employers, these guys have big bucks to pay lawyers, and they will spend them to employ lawyers as well as illegal aliens.

A new law starts out fresh, gives everyone the rules, and the minute someone breaks it you can come down on them like a ton of bricks. Given the national security situation they wouldn't have an inch of wiggle room because they were given a remedy, had the ramifacations spelled out for them, and if they ignored it under those circumstances there would be NO EXCUSE.

[Southack]

As post #278 indicates, illegals have to go home after their 3 year visa expires. There they can request that it be renewed. Some will be renewed. Some won't.

For those not renewed, that illegal is now out of our country permanently (per Bush's plan).

Again, see post #278. Read it. Take a deep breath. Think about it. Compare it to the rest of the transcript for today's speech. Take another deep breath. Contemplate. Relax. Sleep on it. Think some more.

Then re-read Post #278. You'll feel substantially more clever at that point.

[FrontlinesofFreedom]

Oh, I am so powerful, I can start a national movement on some two bit website for a 3rd party candidate..... Wow how about if we make it you??? go - PhikappMom - go.... your pollings is looking good...time to get in...

[Sabertooth]

See post #278. Bush's new plan specifically addresses compelling illegals to return to their home countries once their 3 year visas expire.

Won't happen. President Bush doesn't want to enforce our immigration laws against Illegals now, and he won't do it in the future against the Illegals he would legalize today.

He hasn't made a diligent effort to deport the 300,000 foreigners currently under deportation orders.

There is no reason to believe that President Bush won't come up with yet another Amnesty plan down the road, given that his current one is the second that he's proposed thus far. He has engendered zero trust on this matter.

Also, a plea bargain doesn't have to return the world to its pre-crime state. Killers can't bring their victims back to life, but yet even some murders are plea bargained.

I'm not comparing Illegals to murderers. They're actually thieves, who are stealing their residence in our nation, in violation of our laws.

How would you fee about a plea bargain where the car thief paid a "fine" and kept your car for three years?

[Sabertooth]

It still doesn't get you any closer to being a citizen. You have to have a green card to do that and there are only so many slots available for legal immigration.

That will bring us to Phase II of the Bush Amnesty.

"Gee, we need to do something with all of these guest workers. We can't deport them all, and they can't be second class residents forever."

Bang! Zoom! ... green cards.

[CalKat]

I think you need to re-read the speech. You keep referring to his statement that workers will "return permanently to their home countries after their period of work in the US has expired". You are ignoring the fact that he said they can renew their blue cards. Your quote specifically reinforces that they don't have to return home to renew their blue cards, because of the word PERMANANTLY. You can keep saying they have to return home to renew their blue cards, just like you keep saying this isn't amnesty, but that doesn't make it so.

[CWOJackson]

Good luck in your efforts to educate...

[Happy2BMe]

Most of the arguments for Bush's immigration initiative are supporting it based on the premise that new laws will suddenly take effect that will eventually correct the "illegal" status of immigrants.

For the laws to even begin to start working, if they were legislated tomorrow, would take years.

Much thought and logistics have gone into this new initiative, and it is a given that the problem must be addressed and the new laws put into action immediately.

But we're talking millions of illegals here, scattered from New York to Miami to San Diego to Seattle.

One major weakness of the initiative are the assumptions that:

#1 - Illegal immigrants already here will voluntarily come forward and participate. and,

#2 - Those small, medium, and large businesses and corporations now supporting these illegals will also voluntarily come forward and participate.

The assumption made by the government is that both parties will come forward.

Without being able to identify who these parties are, the iniitiative is not worth the paper it is written on and would therefore be unenforceable.

We are back to SQUARE ONE before the law has even been enacted.

[Southack]

"How would you fee about a plea bargain where the car thief paid a "fine" and kept your car for three years?"

Been there, done that. I had a fine Z-28 back in Houston that was thief bait. After they've been stolen, you don't want them back, trust me. You just want the insurance money. The thief screws you more by letting your car get recovered than by just taking it.

OK, enough of that digression. I do understand where you were trying to go metaphorically with that analogy. Even so, the thief seldom is able to return all of what was taken. Thus, a plea bargain getting some concessions has some merit.

And here's what I want: I want all illegals to be registered. Our options on what we can do with them increase once we know who they all are, where they all live, and where they all work. So first things first, lets convince them to register themselves.

Next, I want a *realistic* way to manage 8 million illegals.

On this latter point I'm open to suggestions, but for my money what Bush has proposed (i.e. voluntary registration, voluntary self-deportation after 3 years, punishments and bans for non-compliance, etc.) is a pretty good start.

Admittedly, this is a compromise. For Registering and paying a fine, illegals gain legal status to work here for the next 3 years. So we've given up something. On the other hand, after three years each illegal has some significant portion of their lives invested in this legal program, so they now have some substantial incentive to comply with the self-deportation requirement after their 3 years are up. On this point, we have suddenly found a way to deport 8 million illegals in the next 3 years.

Logistically, it would be a challenge to make it happen any faster than that time period even with our military involved, and that alternative style of forced deportation certainly wouldn't be great for our international reputation (for whatever, if anything, that is worth).

[Southack]

"One major weakness of the initiative are the assumptions that: #1 - Illegal immigrants already here will voluntarily come forward and participate."

If they don't participate, then it is as though this new plan never existed...hardly something to be upset about.

[Southack]

"That will bring us to Phase II of the Bush Amnesty. "Gee, we need to do something with all of these guest workers. We can't deport them all, and they can't be second class residents forever."

Ah, but we *can* do something about those who have registered with this new program. Their failure to voluntarily comply with their mandatory self-deportation after 3 years will leave them *registered* with our government where they are easy to find and deal with, as well as forfeiting the tax monies that they are owed in refunds, as well as forfeiting the chance to ever again be legal (per this plan).

The big difference between this plan and past plans is that this plan requires government registration for *temporary* work permits. Once registered, they are a manageable problem.

Should 8 million illegals remain unregistered, however, then we can hardly do much about them short of radical military moves.

[McGavin999]

Ah, but once the law is passed we can immediately close the border and nothing can be said about us being "mean" and "heartless".

[cruiserman]

What Bush is proposing is that those in this work program will have the equivalent of social security withholding taken out of every paycheck and put into a fund. When they leave, they get their money back. So basically if they work a few years, there is what amounts to a cash bonus for them to get out.

I want the same deal, except I don't want to pay into SS in the first place.

[McGavin999]

In the above transcript it states that the quota for legal immigration is 140,000 a year. There is no way in the world it would be raised to 1,000,000 a year (which is what we have right now, illegally).

I still say the best way to solve this problem is to put the ball in Mexico's court. We've just made a move for them, now they have to do something for us. Property ownership by Americans should be made legal in Mexico. That would do two things, it would encourage investment in Mexico and two, that investment would result in jobs in Mexico.

[McGavin999]

I've basically given up. I'm so tired of saying the same thing over and over and over. The transcript is posted above, anyone who reads it can see what was really said. The fact that so many choose to misinterpret it means that they just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

[Ichneumon]

If we don't deport them now when they're Illegal, we sure won't deport them after this Amnesty by other means.

Don't be so sure. I get the distinct impression that after a while the "other shoe" is going to drop on this proposal, which is much more stringent policing of the illegals who *don't* "register themselves" with a blue card.

I think what you're missing is that there *will* be distinct differences between the "old" (current) system and the new system, which will change the political and economic landscape enough to allow some *real* border border control for a change.

Currently, border control with real "teeth" is a major hot potato, because economically, there *would* be a giant worker shortage in some industries if we could wave a magic wand and make all illegal workers vanish back to their own countries, and politically there would be a big backlash against any politician who came down hard on "all those poor minority workers who are just trying to feed their families and have no other options".

As the "blue card" program is being hammered out, however, both of those "third rail" problems vaporise. Economically, businesses can still hire as many cheap foreign workers as they need, but *legally* and in a way that better registers and tracks who's doing what. And politically, who can bitch about cracking down on the remaining illegal "immigrants" in the country when there's a straightforward way for well-intentioned foreigners to be here to work legally as long as they go through the right paperwork?

Done right (and Bush is no idiot), this is a win-win proposal. It provides a legal way to answer the pressures that have led to much of the illegal-immigrant flood in the first place, and at the same time it cuts the legs out from under objections to cranking up tough measures against anyone who still insists on coming here illegally.

Additionally, it encourages well-intentioned foreigners to "register" themselves for a change, *and* it lets law enforcement concentrate more on the remaining real troublemakers instead of all the guys who are just here to make more money than they can make back "home".

[McGavin999]

And, if I many add, with the new biometric means of identification it registration will really mean something. You can buy fake ID, you can't buy a fake fingerprint or eyeprint.

[The_Eaglet]

Legal abuse of the First Amendment-Daily Campaign Finance Reform thread-day 28

[FITZ]

Didn't we already have quite a few guest worker programs --- like H1B and a whole lot of others? This seems only to add on another --- soon to become very very large --- but what happens to the illegal who would rather not fill out forms, or go through a background check or wait for our government to process his along with 8 or whatever million applications, or for the government to match him with a job --- and he just goes ahead and comes over and finds a job on his own?

To me this looks like we've added a new type of guest worker --- only it's going to be millions but this won't solve the problem with massive migration and much of it illegal.