About the Moderators' recent efforts on the Illegal Alien threads: keep an open mind

January 7th, 2003 | Sabertooth

[deport]

Thanks for the ping... I mostly stay off these threads and most likely will continue that approach. I may post once in a while.... but the animosity spewed on them isn't worth the aggrivation of even reading them.

A problem exist with a large influx of illegals. So at some point someone has got to make the effort to get the issue on the legislative table.... I think President Bush was headed that way when 911 occurred and the topic got put on hold. Now he is beginning the process again. What the results will be no one knows. Yet just trying to get the country involved, Congress to begin the process, etc will bring many words of dissention I expect.

Take care and good luck.

[B Knotts]

You can count me in that third group. To me, it is utterly unfair to hassle people in and around airports, if we are going to leave the borders wide open, and 10 million illegals undisturbed.

[Poohbah]

The Posse Comitatus Act makes good policy into actual law.

Soldiers tend to make lousy cops.

Soldiers that have been turned into lousy cops tend to make lousy soldiers--i.e., they are not able to fight and win the nation's wars.

[Valin]

While I like to think I’ve generally kept my cool, there have certainly been occasions when I haven’t.


GET OUT OF HERE!! I find this hard to believe. :-)
Part of the problem is with some here is, if you disagree with them you;re a Commie/One Worlder/Pinko/treehugger/Islamo-nazi/Bush-bot/DUer traitor who should be taken out and shot.

[Cagey]

And, if George Bush should sign the renewal of the Automatic Weapons Ban (which he has promised to do should it "reach his desk") the moderators at this site will be working eight days a week. An amnesty program for illegals is bad enough, but get millions of law-abiding gun owners pissed (again) and as the saying goes "you ain't see nothing yet".

It's bad enough we had to battle Clinton on these issues and that's where you're seeing all this frustration coming from. Fighting a political foe is hard enough.

[Dog Gone]

I hate the immigration threads because it has been impossible to express a viewpoint less extreme than a nationwide manhunt and the creation of a 1300 mile Berlin Wall without getting blasted by numerous people.

I don't know what the President is actually going to propose, but I'm willing to keep an open mind about it. We need Mexican labor in menial jobs, but it needs to be regulated. If it's done right (and that remains to be seen), it could cut the flow of illegals coming here to work illegally.

I applaud the efforts of the Lead Moderator and Sabertooth in trying to raise the level of discussion. I'm not sure how optimistic I am about whether it can last, but if enough people watch closely, it's certainly possible.

I am quite confident that whatever is proposed by Bush today will be modified by Congress. Perhaps it will even be totally rejected.

But we have to do something about illegals working here, and it's high time to have a discussion about REALLY doing something. Bush has at least started that.

I'll try to contribute to the discussion, but if it disintegrates into utter hostility by either side, I'll go to Chat and talk about Britney Spears or something.

[Sabertooth]

Eighteen Illegal Alien solutions that are better than any Amnesty

[Poohbah]

I hate the immigration threads because it has been impossible to express a viewpoint less extreme than a nationwide manhunt and the creation of a 1300 mile Berlin Wall without getting blasted by numerous people.

Not to mention AC-130 gunships and minefields.

[LibertarianInExile]

Of course, you went the high road and ignored comments in that vein on this thread.

As usual, Sabertooth, you're a class act.

[junta]

Save the COS mention, conservatives desperate to be liked suffer from mass Stockholm syndrome. Go back up a few posts to the woman with a "Hispanic" in-law and tell me she doesn't think she is one step closer to god than we of the inferior bloodlines. We are deep into The Camp of the Saints metaphor, so deep most cannot see the forest for the trees. It's a madness as it was in late Roman times when Rome's rulers took to mimicing the barbarians.

[DoctorMichael]

Interesting. I didn't know this was going on in the 'background'. Thanks for your honesty and intelligence.

America for Americans.

[ohioWfan]

Excellent post, Sabertooth.

As interested as I am in the FACTS about the immigration issue, I have not read one FR thread on the subject lately.

My emotions are too strung out because a large chunk of my heart is in Baghdad, and I didn't think I could handle the abuse I knew I would get there.

I might just venture out now........

[Willie Green]

Now he is beginning the process again. What the results will be no one knows.

There are many ways to boil a frog.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

~ The Wizard of Oz

[Kevin Curry]

This is a powerfully divisive, explosive, highly polarized issue. You are going to see powerfully divisive, explosive, highly polarized responses. Yet it is not polarized along lines that might be expected, i.e., the radically pro-illegal alien side versus the radically anti-illegal alien side. Rather, it tends to be polarized between the radically anti-illegal alien side and the "no big deal, President Bush knows what he is doing; fold your hands and go to sleep--you're just a racist neocon bigot if you don't" side.

The latter seem to be infected with this outrageous conceit that because they are on the side of political correctness, ipso facto theirs is the voice of reason and rationality. They are like the woman who, after slamming the car door on her husband's fingers, waxes righteously indignant over the the stream of profanities that explode from her hapless husband's mouth, "Such language coming from a man your age! Henry, you're making a fool of yourself and embarrassing me and the children!"

Yes, I suppose there is room within these immigration threads for reason-based persuasion one-on-one. That has happened and will continue to happen. But as was also true regarding the campaign finance, Patriot Act, and Medicare prescription drugs debacles, you must also expect bald and loud cries of dismay and anguish. Is there any good that can come of these? I believe there is. I have this hope--perhaps it is a vain hope--that Internet fora such as Free Republic are looked at and considered by policy-makers in Congress and the administration seeking to get a rough sense of the mood of the conservative base. These policy makers are less persuaded by reason (they already believe they are the smartest people on earth) than they are by raw power. In the end, the only raw power these people will take note of is the power of rebellion. If they sense that their proposals and actions are inflaming and driving away a significant portion of their power base, they are more likely to look at other less inflamatory alternatives.

[PhiKapMom]

Very well stated. Your reason is also mine for usually staying off these threads even though I read them. You have to be totally one way or the other or get off the thread.

You are right. Something has to be done and at least the President has taken the step of making recommendations and now it will be up to Congress to decide.

[PhiKapMom]

Agree with your comments for the most part, but I don't see why this subject has to turn into some of the nastiest comments I have seen on here.

Lived in the San Antonio area and know all about the illegal problem. Something needs done not only about the illegals but more importantly our borders. Unless we have a discourse at all levels, the problems remain.

The President is proposing a solution and now up to Congress to act. That means time for anyone that is for or against his proposal to get involved with their Congressman and two Senators. They are our representatives in D.C. and we need to be heard.

Instead of getting nasty with each other -- state our opinions on the threads but be sure that your Congressional people hear from you! Nasty discussion on here buys nothing -- enough people put pressure on Congress and something will happen.

[Kevin Curry]

Rather, it tends to be polarized between the radically anti-illegal alien side and the "no big deal, President Bush knows what he is doing; fold your hands and go to sleep--you're just a racist neocon bigot if you don't" side.

Correction to my immediately preceeding post: I meant paleocon.

I find this implied characterization particularly annoying because it presumes that those of us on the radically anti-illegal alien side of the issue were or are Buchanan supporters. I have never supported Buchanan. Bush was my man. Until now anyway.

[Lead Moderator]

Regarding your post here, I'll put a link to it (the graphic) here and stand back and see what people think about if the feel of the forum is that it is the sort of thing we should be letting go. Personally, I think it is needlessly instigative and likely to do nothing but encourage the thread to degenerate into bickering over the attitudes of posters rather than of any of the issues involved. Obviously, others on our staff agree since independently of me they came to the same conclusion.

[Rebelbase]

" Bush was my man. Until now anyway.""

Its a sad day to realize something you once put value in has no worth anymore.

[snopercod]

My reply here is addressing a bigger issue than moving threads around: The increasing number of posters advocating violence against one group or another.

You mentioned some posters wanting to mine the border. I know of a number of FReepers who advocate shooting down airliners and private planes that stray across some imaginary line in the sky. There are many other examples of this lynch-mob mentality which is becoming more prevalent on FR recently.

Has Free Republic been successfully infiltrated by the DU crowd, moveon.org, or the American Nazi Party?

Or have some FReepers simply forgotten that we live in a country with a Constitution that guarantees due process of law? - even to people or groups that may not be in favor.

I had thought that the Posting Guidelines here on FR prohibited the advocacy of violence, but on reading them again just now, I see that the only prohibition is against "posting materials promoting violence".

I hope the management will clarify this rule and start cracking down on those wanting to kill this group or nuke that group or cut off Michael Jackon's peylotes or whatever... Frankly, all of this armchair machismo is becoming an embarassment.

Thank you for listening.