Posted on 01/04/2004 7:55:31 PM PST by Lead Moderator
Edited on 01/04/2004 8:43:28 PM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]
Hello everyone.
I've been talking to some long time Freepers via email for several weeks (one in particular). His concern was over the immigration threads and how they turn out on Free Republic.
Many times these threads turn into flame wars. There appears to be a lot of pent up hostility that various factions have developed for each other which ends up coming out, over and over, and the result is that the threads turn into a lot of crap. The moderators get hit with dozens of abuse reports over personal attacks and other silliness. Eventually, it becomes more work than is really worthwhile, and the threads get moved to the backroom so we don't have to deal with it.
This is an OK status quo when it occurs just occasionally. But when it happens frequently, it is not OK. That means that there is a problem.
So we are going to try to fix the problem.
There are sincere people on both sides of the debate who have gotten too into the battle that they are no longer being constructive. The goal will be to help them get back on track.
But we have two groups of people who are completely not sincere.
One group is those who really have no other goal other than to try to fracture conservatives and turn them on each other. One group is those who think that those most concerned with immigration are really just bigots and want to shout them down.
The good news is that both of these groups are very, very small. The bad news is that lots of people are firmly convinced that many of those who are just riled up sincere Freepers are actually part of one of these small groups. In other words, a lot of suspicion of motives has come about.
We're going to have to overcome that.
One of us tried something with a topic which had developed a similar problem, the Creation/Evolution threads. We'll give that type of approach a try for the immigration threads.
So here is what is going to happen. Starting tomorrow, when I see an immigration related thread go up, I am going to post immediately a warning that this would be a very bad thread to engage in insulting or flame baiting. When I see someone ignoring the warning, I'll address them personally telling them to knock it off.
What we need those who are serious about the issue to do is to act responsibly during this time. Engage in debate, without the insults. Post arguments, not ad hominems. Post facts, not innuendos. If you don't like someone, figure out a way to not have it get in the way of your postings. If you want to be disagreeable, do so without being needlessly disrespectful and instigative.
What will happen is, over time with this approach, those who are just trying to stir up crap, and those who are unable to help themselves, will stick out like sore thumbs and will get the axe.
And once that happens, then more direct involvement will not be needed, which I think everyone will agree is the preferred way.
So ping those who you know are interested in debating the topic to this thread, so they can see what is coming.
Thanks
Let's see if I have this straight?
No matter how someone came to this country, through proper channels or sneaking across the border in the still of night or over staying a legal Visa they are an immigrant and to say someone is illegal is pejorative and judgmental; right?
First, I would suggest that you check the immigration laws and how they define what is an immigrant and an illegal alien.
Secondly, it is the purpose of the rule of law to be pejorative and judgmental for behavior that violates the law. Clearly there are varying levels of law violation ranging from simple misdemeanors (with multiple classes) to felonies (with multiple classes ranging up to capital offenses.
Violators of the law must be charged and judged based on the type of offense and the level and class of offense. The law is the law, and we have process in place in this republic to change the law when the citizenry decides that a change is necessary, but until them the law and the definitions of the offenses remains the law and must be enforced. There is an old adage "don't make a law if you aren't going to enforce it."
Please lay off the NAZI analogies it only diminishes the talking point of the user of that term.
Too often we see posts advocating or extolling the commission of felonies upon people who are committing misdemeanors, as if they therefore deserve any abuse or outrage committed against them, since they are "despicable people" and "all violent criminals" and "terrorists against our public treasury" and "illegals." It was against those cruel and unjust ideas that I brought up the sad chapter from the previous century, not to equate but to warn.
Nothing wrong at all with supporting the breaking of gun ordiances IMO.
"Show me the camps. Show me the millions of people being gassed. Show me the tattoos on people's arms. Show me elderly... men being beaten in the streets, their stores smashed, and books burned. Show me huge piles of emaciated bodies stocked high like cords of wood."
If you can't show me that, then the analogy to the Nazis is so not even in the ballpark as to completely overwhelm whatever point you were trying to make. It is the debate equivalent negation of "you had me at hello"- you lost me at Nazi.
It is needless baiting and we need to lose that approach on these (and other) threads.
I second your proposal.
There is one small caveat for consideration first though.
The National Guard (those authorized by the U.S. Constitution to protect our national borders) can't play.
They are playing in Iraq - in numbers unheard of since the Second World War.
One of my sons is an officer in the Army National Guard. We just said "see you in a year or so" a few days ago as he goes on to additional advanced training and then to Iraq.
His unit (part of the 7th ID) has been recalled in it's entirety. This is the first mass recall that division has had since the 1940's.
I had several good hours of quality time with my son to reflect on his mission, values, and what he wanted to accomplish while serving in uniform in Iraq.
One comment will readily come to my focus for years to come:
Will do, but it's not a matter of thinking what one wants. I have seen too many posts which advocate "shoot shovel and shutup" and too few people pointing them out.
,,, romantic notion BUMP [LOL]
Does anyone else find this mildly dirty, or am I just a sicko? On second thought, don't answer that.
BILLINGS, Mont. -- Yellowstone National Park happens to be on top of one of the largest "super volcanoes" in the world. Geologists claim the Yellowstone Park area has been on a regular eruption cycle of 600,000 years. The last eruption was 640,000 years ago making the next one long overdue. This next eruption could be 2,500 times the size of the 1980 Mount St. Helens eruption.
And on top of that, San Francisco is overdue for the next big one, which means that the Christopher Lloyd show might be interrupted. This was a bad week to give up worrying, to paraphrase Airport.
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