Kids thrive on discipline

Tucson Arizona Star ^ | 01/03/04 | Betsy Hart

[deziner]

Both my children learned real quick they better behave in public. Each of them threw one temper tantrum out in public with they were two. They learned I had no problem with spanking them in the middle of a store and they never did it again. They also learned that if I have to say "do we need an attitude adjustment in the bathroom?" when we're at a restaurant that if they don't behave that is exactly what they will get. I have to admit, my children are very well behaved - especially in public.

On the other hand, I was at the store yesterday and some 4 or 5 year old was screaming and throwing a temper tantrum in the store because she didn't get something she wanted and the mom just totally ignored it. Drove me insane.

[netmilsmom]

I have to ask. Do you have children?

I don't understand why you call me Goldilocks.

[Woahhs]

I have to ask. Do you have children?

No.
(BTW...I'm really looking forward to your follow-up to this one.)

I don't understand why you call me Goldilocks.

It refers to the practice of drawing conclusions and taking actions without ever checking their validity with respect to the wider context of those decisions. Everything Goldilocks does seem perfectly reasonable to her at the time, but it's readily apparent satisfying her own sensibilities is the ONLY thing she has in mind. As you're a church going woman, I'm sure you're familiar with a related syndrome... those not as spiritually advanced as I am are dilettantes, and those more spiritually advanced than I are fanatics.

So which was it? If you were being constantly told not to be angry or scared, you must have been constantly grieving your parents about every inconvenience and potential injury you might suffer. Either you were exhaustingly high maintainence, or you are resentful of their choice to disregard ephemeral issues. Surely you were not raised in a state of constant provocation and danger.

[netmilsmom]

>>Either you were exhaustingly high maintainence, or you are resentful of their choice to disregard ephemeral issues<<

Wow, you're good and my ex-boss/dear friend is a Psych. I had very distant parents. I loved them both and they loved me but that which was inconvenient was disregarded.

I have no problem with you having an opinion on how children should be raised without having any. Some people see how much work children are and rightfully decide not to have them.

I always thought I was too selfish to have children. At 34 God gave me a surprise. I see children differently now. I cannot believe how much I love my girls, but that is part of raising kids. As a thinking adult one knows that our job is to take that little animal and guide him/her to being a fine adult.

You have given me so much to think about. (BTW, if one of my daughters did not like the color of bike on Christmas and she threw a fit, yes she would be punished. If she stated as she cried that she didn't like the color, it would be handled differently). Thank you.

I hope that you will give the benefit of your knowledge to some child, niece nephew or someone else. It would be a pity to have it die with you.

[Woahhs]

My wife tells me my last paragraph in my last response was quite over the top. I hope you will accept my sincerest apologies for such flagrant and abrasive speculation.

You may well get the last laugh as we are planning on children starting this year, but we've had 17 years to plan and prepare for expanding our family, as well as exorcise the demons of our own childhoods. And while you may have intended sarcasm with your final sentence, my best friend of twenty years with three children of his own (eldest to graduate college this spring) has told me the exact same thing.

[netmilsmom]

>>And while you may have intended sarcasm with your final sentence, my best friend of twenty years with three children of his own (eldest to graduate college this spring) has told me the exact same thing.<<

No really, there was no sarcasm intended. I'm so glad for the two of you. When you look in the eyes of your child, a new world opens. A glorious and scary world where you will not believe that any being could be so enchanting and yet so easily hurt. You will never view a movie or read a newspaper story about an abused child without thinking of your own. You seem like the kind of parents that all of us look at and say, "What a great family!"

Keep in touch. I love hearing about babies!!!!

[Palladin]

So you have become your daughter. Ample fodder for therapy there. I don't think it is the place of an elderly parent to correct his forty-something child's current mistakes. I spent 21 years doing that while she lived under my roof. Eventually her children will be corrected by society, in one way or another.

[Palladin]

Thank you for calling my attention to this excellent book and fine author. He expresses the depths and seriousness of the problem in a reasoned, eloquent manner.

This is a problem of major proportions in America, and as Shaw points out, occurs in privileged homes as well as in the poverty neighborhoods.

The chapter repoduced above says it all. I hope that young parents will take heed.

[XBob]

9 - "I'd love to email the above article to my daughter, but she would probably never speak to me again."

sounds like you created the 'monster' - your daughter - by doing exactly what this article is about - teaching her not to discipline her kids.

If you had any sense you would personally carry it to her and read it over with her, line by line.

But apparently you, like the daughter you raised, are afraid of your children.

[XBob]

87-"So you have become your daughter. Ample fodder for therapy there. I don't think it is the place of an elderly parent to correct his forty-something child's current mistakes. I spent 21 years doing that while she lived under my roof. Eventually her children will be corrected by society, in one way or another."

Obviously, you didn't do a good job.

Why should you impose your duties as a parent/grandparent on us (society). I guess you are too lazy.

Too bad you don't love your grandchildren enough to try to help make them into good citizens, and are content to let 'society' beat them into shape.

What a shame.

No wonder your daughter turned out to be the miserable parent she is. What an example she had to learn from.

[Palladin]

That's a very harsh judgment.

If you meant it to hurt me, you have succeeded.

[XBob]

91 - "That's a very harsh judgment.
If you meant it to hurt me, you have succeeded."

I agree, it is a harsh judgement. However, I cannot personally help to save your grandchildren, only you can. And someone must wake you and your daughter, up.

Apparently, even seeing what is happening to your grandchildren, and recognizing that there is real trouble in their future doesn't seem to motivate you.

I was a teacher, and have seen it before. Two of the worst cases were the sons of different respected Doctors. One, a well known heart surgeon, who finally came in only when I threatened to flunk his son, did finally come in, and rather than talk about his son, all he could talk about was people who didn't pay their bills to him, but I was 'nice'. His son didn't improve, I requested his father to come in again and he failed to show, and I flunked the son. He was a bright boy - and the course was Biology 1, in high school. The son of a doctor, flunked biology. So sad.

Why don't you call Dr. Laura, the AM radio talk show hostess who specializes in problems like this.

And above all DO SOMETHING !!!

[XBob]

ping

[cyborg]

You need to come out of retirement and buddy up with Joe Clark

[XBob]

thanks for the compliment. I really admire him and what his has done. For those of youall who don't remember him, here is a bit of info:

The feisty and polsyllabic-speaker Clark was made for the helm of Eastside High. After two years of his leadership, the formerly raucous institution was declared a model school by New Jersey's governor. Clark himself was named one of the nation's ten "Principals of Leadership" in 1986.

Clark thwarts those who believe that the learning process is disrupted by tough discipline. Instead of offering sympathy, Clark held high expectations for students, challenging them to develop habits for success and confronting them when they failed to perform. On a single day during his first week at Eastside, Clark expelled 300 students for fighting, vandalism, drug possession, profanity or abusing teachers. He explains, "If there is no discipline, there is anarchy. Good citizenship demands attention to responsibilities as well as rights."

Clark won acclaim for his achievements in a Time cover story, two 60 minutes profiles, ad appearances on television news and talk shows, all over the world. President Reagan named him a model educator and offered him a White House post as policy advisor (Clark turned him down.) Clark was the subject of the Warner Brothers film, "Lean On Me", starring two-time Oscar nominee Morgan Freeman as Joe Clark. After seven years as principal of Eastside High, he resigned in 1990 and began speaking on the country's lecture circuit. He is a nominee for the National Association of Campus activities 1996 Speaker of the Year Award.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Kids thrive on discipline

But not on tyranny...

[MetalHeadConservative35]

Asked to put a toy away, the youngster began to scream. Told to calm down, she knocked over her desk and crawled under the teacher's desk, kicking it and dumping out the contents of the drawers. Then … she began hurling books at her terrified classmates, who had to be ushered from the room to safety."

why does this sound alittle "made up" you really think some kid is really gonna do this? sounds kinda off to me,but thats my opinion

[Prime Choice]

why does this sound alittle "made up" you really think some kid is really gonna do this? sounds kinda off to me,but thats my opinion

Doesn't sound at all outlandish to me, especially considering the absolutely intolerable behavior I saw many kids engaged in while their parents shopped over the past holiday season. These kids were unholy terrors and the most their parents did was say, "Now [child's name], stop that...okay?"

Okay? OKAY? I don't recall my parents ever asking my assent to behave when I was a kid. If anything, their statements were direct orders...and ended with a distinctly implied "or else" if I didn't straighten up and fly right.

[MetalHeadConservative35]

Okay? OKAY? I don't recall my parents ever asking my assent to behave when I was a kid. If anything, their statements were direct orders...and ended with a distinctly implied "or else" if I didn't straighten up and fly right.

ya but you have to remember,cause big daddy govt said so: you displine your kids its "abuse"

[Woahhs]

ya but you have to remember,cause big daddy govt said so: you displine your kids its "abuse"

Well that's not exactly true, but it makes a good cover story for spineless parenting.