Kids thrive on discipline

Tucson Arizona Star ^ | 01/03/04 | Betsy Hart

[Holly_P]

Is the parenting culture poised to come to its collective senses in the new year? Well, probably not. But at least common sense is getting some attention in some quarters.

In the article "Are You a Parent or a Pushover?" in the January issue of Parents magazine, author Kellye Carter Crocker reported on a Parents survey that showed most mothers expressing "deep concern over today's discipline methods."

For starters, 88 percent said parents "let children get away with too much."

Magazine surveys may be notoriously inaccurate, but still this reveals some level of angst over how kids are being raised.

As Crocker wrote, parents may be "sensing what mounting evidence is starting to reveal: Some of the discipline strategies that have been in vogue in recent years just aren't working."

"Elaborate systems that give kids multiple chances, prolonged discussions about the 'feelings' behind bad behavior, negotiations about consequences and so on are often ineffective."

Well, excuse me, but, um, "duh."

Time magazine, in its Dec. 15 edition, ran a compelling piece titled, "Does Kindergarten Need Cops?" It was subtitled, tellingly, "The Youngest School Kids are Acting Out in Really Outrageous Ways. Why?"

As the authors, led by Claudia Wallis, put it, "Temper tantrums are nothing new in kindergarten and first grade, but the behavior of one little 6-year-old in Fort Worth, Texas, had even the most experienced staff members running for cover."

"Asked to put a toy away, the youngster began to scream. Told to calm down, she knocked over her desk and crawled under the teacher's desk, kicking it and dumping out the contents of the drawers. Then … she began hurling books at her terrified classmates, who had to be ushered from the room to safety."

A child with "oppositional defiant disorder"? Well, no. As Time revealed, this kind of outrageous behavior is escalating dramatically among so-called normal, healthy, middle-class kids, like this one.

Time reported the child-advocacy group Partnership for Children just completed a survey of child care centers, elementary schools and pediatricians throughout the Fort Worth area.

It showed 93 percent of 39 schools responding said kindergartners today "have more emotional and behavioral problems than were seen just five years ago." A majority of day-care centers, which host the tiniest tots, revealed that "incidents of rage and anger" have increased over the past three years.

Ronald Stephens, director of the National School Safety Center in Westlake Village, Calif., said this is true across the country. He told Time, "Violence is getting younger and younger."

Time cited such problems as "economic stress," though youngsters have lived through far more stressful times without 3-year-olds stabbing classmates with forks, as the authors describe one tyke doing.

Time suggested there may be too much time in child care, a politically incorrect but at least sane observation, and the authors looked to academic pressure, though it's helpful to note that's waxed and waned for a century.

The authors largely blamed violence in the media. Well, OK. But then why do many kids who see the same images not act this way, and how is it then that adult criminal activity has been on a significant downward spiral for years?

What the Time authors didn't do is give anything more than a glancing nod to parents and how they raise their kids.

Talk about a root cause.

As Ronald Simons, a sociologist at the University of Georgia in Athens, told Parents: "Without structure, children become self-absorbed, selfish and unhappy - and they make everyone around them miserable, too."

He cited studies that show kids raised by authoritative parents, meaning loving moms and dads who set firm limits and stick to them, "excel academically, develop better social skills, feel good about themselves and are happier overall" than peers raised by lax or excessively harsh parents.

Interestingly, Simons echoed other research that finds the longer the child behaves poorly the more permissive parents become, setting in place a terrible cycle that ends - who knows where? With a healthy 6-year-old attacking her teacher?

I call it a modern-day commitment to the "cult of the always-contented child." We parents are committed to our own pleasure and to the constant pleasure of our kids, too.

We worry they won't like us if we give them anything less. Tragically, we don't worry about the consequences of sending them down such a self-destructive path.

In more technical terms, Simons told Parents, "There's an (unfortunate) fear that it's traumatic for a child to be disciplined and to hear 'no' too often."

Ah, a slim ray of common-sense advice on parenting. 2004 may already be looking up.

[netmilsmom]

>>We all slip not and <<

Ooops, make that "Now and then...
You know, Mombrain!

[Woahhs]

You are more than welcome to be judgemental, but until you sit in my shoes, and have a better suggestion, you can't really say anything.

Actually, yes I can, but as is par for the course these days you'd no doubt sooner swallow a brick than accept any "better suggestion." Your demeanor already shows all one needs to know.

[netmilsmom]

>>Actually, yes I can, but as is par for the course these days you'd no doubt sooner swallow a brick than accept any "better suggestion." Your demeanor already shows all one needs to know.<<

I have been nothing but polite to you. Please explain my "demeanor"?

[TheStickman]

*Time Out* is the biggest waste of time. Nothing is *learned* while in "ti*e *u*" (see, it's a profane phrase for me hehehe) IMO, that BS was developed as a keen way to push a problem under the rug.

I've yet to hear an intelligent response to the question: What new behaviors are learned while in *time out*?

[Woahhs]

Please explain my "demeanor"?

Well your self-justification and rationalizing in the face of obvious behavior problems for a start. Then your retreat to the old "you're not in my shoes" canard.

But tell me, how could someone "politely" approach you to complain that your child was a little hellion? This is not a challenge, but a very real question. I know parents whose toddlers have attacked the family pet with a weapon that display that same bifurcated sense of civility you have displayed.

Also, please explain the reasoning behind "you are allowed to have your emotions?"

[netmilsmom]

As I said in the posts above, my daughters have learned that as long as they act like maniacs, they are in time out. When they settle down and can talk to me without crying hysterically, they can come back to the group.

I agree with you on the "time out chair" deal. I've seen mothers put the kid on a time out chair then talk to them the whole time. If one removes the child from the group, a time out teaches them the consequences of their actions. If he/she wants to continue to act that way, no one wants to see it.

[Woahhs]

How do you impose the "time out" when you are under time constraints?

[verity]

"... had a two year old run up..."

Future libertarian?

[netmilsmom]

>>Well your self-justification and rationalizing in the face of obvious behavior problems for a start. Then your retreat to the old "you're not in my shoes" canard.<<
Every child starts off with behavior problems, it is our job as parents to overcome them. A baby is a totally selfish being, we train them not to be. It takes work and it doesn't happen overnight. Then every child is different and what works for one may not work for another. We have to find what works. I guess that instead of saying, "you're not in my shoes." I should have said, "You have your child and I have mine."

>>But tell me, how could someone "politely" approach you to complain that your child was a little hellion? This is not a challenge, but a very real question. I know parents whose toddlers have attacked the family pet with a weapon that display that same bifurcated sense of civility you have displayed.<<
I will listen to suggestions of other parents. I think that you have made assumptions because of my choice of words. I have pinged Jonathansmommie here. She knows my girls, neither one of them are hellions and I am neither an abusive nor permissive parent.

>>Also, please explain the reasoning behind "you are allowed to have your emotions?"<<
Isn't everyone allowed to have their emotions? It is how we deal with them. It is my job as a parent to help my children to act appropriately when they feel a certain way, not tell then that it is "stupid" or "wrong" to feel angry or scared, as my parents did.

I try very hard to be the best mom I can be but sometimes the love of my children does cloud my views. I think everyone tries. If someone thinks that my children are monsters or even I am acting in a way that is inappropriate, I hope they will tell me. How can anything be changed if no one tells me?

[Dianna]

Also, please explain the reasoning behind "you are allowed to have your emotions?"

She doesn't want her adult children to be unable to deal with emotions like anger because they were forced to stuff it their whole childhood.

Kids get mad. They can express it reasonably if taught to do so. They can also be taught to deny it. Both become habit.

[netmilsmom]

Can you define "time constraints?" I'm not sure I understand.

[netmilsmom]

Hey Lady!
Great minds think alike!

[SLB]

FYI

[Dianna]

Great minds think alike!

BTDT! Took a few years to get it worked out.

[Woahhs]

I think that you have made assumptions because of my choice of words.

That is probably a fair bet.

[netmilsmom]

If children came with a manual, it would all be thoughtless. (but men still wouldn't read it!)

[Woahhs]

Isn't everyone allowed to have their emotions?

Frankly, no, they shouldn't. Emotions are your subjective reaction to a give situation, they are not absolutes, and shouldn't be treated like they are. I've heard all the rationales for not suppressing emotions and find them simplistic at best, and counter-productive at worst. Some emotions should be condoned, and some should be supressed. If there is a question as to which is which, I suggest a quick reading of C.S. Lewis "First Things."

[netmilsmom]

Honestly, if you knew my girls, you would see that I have the greatest kids on earth. They are sweet, smart and loving. (I'm a little bigoted toward them). But honestly, it is hard to find a bad kid. They need lots of love and lots of discipline. None of them are easy but the rewards are unimaginable.

Parents seem to either go too far or not far enough anymore.

[Oberon]

I'd love to email the above article to my daughter, but she would probably never speak to me again.

Well... tell her "NO!"

Yeah, I know... I wish it were that simple.

[netmilsmom]

>>I suggest a quick reading of C.S. Lewis "First Things."<<

I will. Do you think I can get a copy from the local library?

I have to go on my experience from my own childhood where I was told constantly, to stop being angry or there is no need to be afraid. I help my girls define the emotion (I know you are angry but you are not allowed to act this way or I know you are scared of the dark but if you close your eyes you see nothing and there is nothing in the dark that is not in the light) then teach them what is an appropriate reaction to that emotion.
Did I explain that better?