Parallel Legal Systems Don't Fit (Let Canada's example be a warning to us!)

The Vancouver Sun ^ | December 26, 2003 | Unattributed

[quidnunc]

Mass immigration is making the West's once culturally homogenous liberal states increasingly diverse.

As the Canadian philosopher Charles Taylor has observed, this demographic shift imposes fragmentary pressures as many citizens, identifying more with their particular ethnic or religious group rather than with the state as a whole, make demands that conflict with traditional liberalism.

"As the country gets more diverse, we are more and more acutely aware of the divergences in our conceptions of the good life," he says in a 1994 essay.

This politics of fragmentation seems to be the choice of some members of Canada's Islamic community. Mohamed Elmasry, president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, argued earlier this year that Canada needs "a multiplicity of laws" to accommodate different groups when their moral standards clash.

More recently, Muslim leaders agreed to set up an Islamic Institute of Civil Justice to oversee tribunals that would arbitrate marital breakups and other civil disputes between Muslims on the basis of shariah, or Islamic law. Mr. Elmasry says the tribunals, which would include imams, elders and lawyers, will provide Muslims with the means to settle civil disputes out of court according to their beliefs. They would be voluntary, and the ruling would be submitted to the courts for ratification if necessary.

Not everyone is so sanguine. Robert Martin, a law professor at the University of Western Ontario, says special legal institutions based on race and gender are moving Canada away from liberal traditions of the equality of all citizens before the law. Shariah tribunals extend this idea, effectively establishing a parallel legal system based on religion, which he believes will lead to "an apartheid-based legal system."

Liberalism holds that the principles of individual freedom and equality before the law take precedence over any collective goals that members of a particular group might claim for themselves. Shariah seemingly challenges these secular principles, not least because it applies to much more than a strictly legal notion of the law: As an expression of God's will, it includes customs and manners Muslims are obliged to accept.

-snip-

[Gritty]

If Canada doesn't turn this policy around immediately, she is doomed. I honestly can't imagine how anybody with any sense could be so deluded to participate in this National Death Wish.

We had better start seriously thinking which Provinces we will take as additional States in the Union, and which borders we need to consider fortifying.

If you think the French separatists were bad, hang around a while as the Muslims take over and drive decent Canadians across our borders as refugees and civil war erupts!

[NYFriend]

Well, many Muslim Countries have separate courts for Muslims and non-muslims. In Egypt, these courts are similar to Surrogate's Courts. Nigeria's southern regions have religious civil and criminal courts. Pakistan has criminal laws that only apply to Muslims. Many other countries have independent, nongovernmental, religious courts or police. In some Jewish groups in the US, they religious divorces (the couple goes through a Beth Din, with a rabbi, and then have a Get written. A Get is a divorce document the husband gives to the wife. There may also be a ritual of seperation,, though as far as I know (meaning in New York) the state courts must still dissolve the marriage civilly (in New York, I believe in all cases, the civil divorce preceeds the Get, but you'd want to settle the terms first to be sure that the husband would give the Get.)

[Jacquerie]

The early medieval Popes had a similar arrangement beginning with the Roman Emperor Constantine. It was a constant problem as western European nation-states emerged and culminated with the violent 15-17th century protestant reformation(s).

The pandering Canadian leaders are ingnorant or negligent or both. They must go and the dual policy rescinded.

[Lucy Lake]

Pinging...

[Paleoguy]

This is the chickens of uncontrolled immigration and multiculturalism coming home to roost.

[GMMAC]

Canada has been "doomed" as a nation since 1982 when Pierre Trudeau was permitted to impose his so-called "Charter of Rights and Freedoms" as its constitution.

Once institutionalized pandering to every imaginable special interest at the majority's expense was coupled with and an unelected and unaccountable judiciary which holds itself above the peoples' elected representatives, Canada ceased to exist as a free, or even potentially, free nation.

Since no reforms can occur without the judiciary's consent, wiley socialist Trudeau essentially put in place the national equivalent of a corporate "poison pill" and left a once proud land as little more than cautionary example to those living elsewhere who value personal liberties.

The judges and their Liberal political allies will never overthrow the Charter because to do so will never serve their elite and selfish interests. Relief and a return to democracy can only be achieved through the wholesale substitution of a morally superior document in its place.

God Bless America and The United States' Constitution !!!

[Canadian Outrage]

That is the MOST ludicrous thing I have read in a while. !! Personally, I'm so sick of immigrants I could hurl. But these types of things are the result of the Country being run by FEDERAL Liberals. Liberals = destruction. They destroy everything that is decent, just and Godly. I'm of the opinion that this Country, with the exception of a couple of Provinces is doomed anyway. Where has anyone ever seen Socialism be anything but a failure?

[Canadian Outrage]

Incidentally, the LARGEST ISLAMIC population in North America resides in Quebec.!!

[Gritty]

Incidentally, the LARGEST ISLAMIC population in North America resides in Quebec.!!

This doesn't surprise me in the least. I rather assumed they would take over there first.

[albertabound]

Islam Fastest Growing Religion In Canada: Census


Muslims in Canada are on the rise, according to the latest census


WASHINGTON, May 15 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - The number of Muslims has thrived in Canada as a census shows that Islam has become the number one non-Christian faith in Quebec and Canada as a whole, a leading Canadian newspaper reported Wednesday, May 14.

The number of Quebec Muslims increased by almost 1.5 times between 1991 and 2001, The Montreal Gazette said, quoting the 2001 Canadian census made public by the official Statistics Canada on Tuesday, May 13.

The census attributed the obvious increase to Muslims immigration from south Asia, North Africa and the Middle East, making Islam the fastest growing religion in the country.

It also showed that the 108,620 Muslims in Quebec were up by 141.8 percent from a decade earlier.

Two years ago, Muslims made up only 2 per cent of this country's population, the census said.

"Now Islam is going to be a Western religion and we look forward to making a positive contribution. We hope that this will help to bring the world closer together," the Gazette quoted as saying Salaam Elmenyawi, chairperson of the Muslim Council of Montreal and a chaplain at Concordia University.

Bashir Hussain, chairperson of the Montreal Chapter of the Council of Muslim Communities in Canada, remembers when there were only a handful of Muslims in Montreal in the early 1960s.

"Now we have about 30 mosques and places of prayer, and it's still not enough," he stressed.

Jack Jedwab, executive director of the Association for Canadian Studies, also highlighted an increasing number of Muslim students among the Muslim community in Canada.

"By the time the data are collected in the 2011 census, if they are collected, there may be more Muslim than Protestant students in Montreal schools," he told the daily.

Outnumbering Jews

The census shows that for the first time Muslims outnumber Jews, a demographic that could ultimately affect this country's position vis-a-vis the Arab-Israeli conflict.

"I would have to say with a caution that, yes, of course it is going to have an effect because politicians respond, of course to votes," said John Carson, a professor of Canadian foreign policy at the University of Toronto.

According to the census, the number of Jews also increased between 1991 and 2001, but only by 3.7 per cent to 329,995.

And the proportion they represent of the total Canadian population declined to 1.1 per cent from 1.2 per cent.

The census data show Roman Catholics are still by far the largest group in Quebec.

The 5.9 million Catholics in 2001 were up by 1.3 percent, although they declined to 83.2 percent from 86 percent of the population.

Protestants declined a little in both absolute and percentage terms. However, Baptists rose by 28.9 percent to almost 35,455.

According to the census, Christian Orthodox rose 12.4 percent, Buddhists 30.8 percent, Hindus 73.7 percent, Sikhs 81.7 percent.


Just for the record, there are 600,000 muslims in Canada and depending on how they are counted, between 6 and 10 million in the U.S.

[albertabound]

Islam Fastest Growing Religion In Canada: Census


Muslims in Canada are on the rise, according to the latest census


WASHINGTON, May 15 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - The number of Muslims has thrived in Canada as a census shows that Islam has become the number one non-Christian faith in Quebec and Canada as a whole, a leading Canadian newspaper reported Wednesday, May 14.

The number of Quebec Muslims increased by almost 1.5 times between 1991 and 2001, The Montreal Gazette said, quoting the 2001 Canadian census made public by the official Statistics Canada on Tuesday, May 13.

The census attributed the obvious increase to Muslims immigration from south Asia, North Africa and the Middle East, making Islam the fastest growing religion in the country.

It also showed that the 108,620 Muslims in Quebec were up by 141.8 percent from a decade earlier.

Two years ago, Muslims made up only 2 per cent of this country's population, the census said.

"Now Islam is going to be a Western religion and we look forward to making a positive contribution. We hope that this will help to bring the world closer together," the Gazette quoted as saying Salaam Elmenyawi, chairperson of the Muslim Council of Montreal and a chaplain at Concordia University.

Bashir Hussain, chairperson of the Montreal Chapter of the Council of Muslim Communities in Canada, remembers when there were only a handful of Muslims in Montreal in the early 1960s.

"Now we have about 30 mosques and places of prayer, and it's still not enough," he stressed.

Jack Jedwab, executive director of the Association for Canadian Studies, also highlighted an increasing number of Muslim students among the Muslim community in Canada.

"By the time the data are collected in the 2011 census, if they are collected, there may be more Muslim than Protestant students in Montreal schools," he told the daily.

Outnumbering Jews

The census shows that for the first time Muslims outnumber Jews, a demographic that could ultimately affect this country's position vis-a-vis the Arab-Israeli conflict.

"I would have to say with a caution that, yes, of course it is going to have an effect because politicians respond, of course to votes," said John Carson, a professor of Canadian foreign policy at the University of Toronto.

According to the census, the number of Jews also increased between 1991 and 2001, but only by 3.7 per cent to 329,995.

And the proportion they represent of the total Canadian population declined to 1.1 per cent from 1.2 per cent.

The census data show Roman Catholics are still by far the largest group in Quebec.

The 5.9 million Catholics in 2001 were up by 1.3 percent, although they declined to 83.2 percent from 86 percent of the population.

Protestants declined a little in both absolute and percentage terms. However, Baptists rose by 28.9 percent to almost 35,455.

According to the census, Christian Orthodox rose 12.4 percent, Buddhists 30.8 percent, Hindus 73.7 percent, Sikhs 81.7 percent.


Just for the record, there are 600,000 muslims in Canada and depending on how they are counted, between 6 and 10 million in the U.S.

[the_french_gynecologist]

the american melting pot had the luxury of ethnically cleansing out british loyalists, genociding the indians and disenfranchising blacks... it's a lot easier to impose your one size fits all constitution on a diverse society once you've silenced the loudest members of the opposition

canada is a little different... the british occupation and the royal proclamation of 1760 recognized french canadian rights to continue to enjoy their own courts and civil law that had existed there for over 100 years... the english occupiers were in the minority and had to put their political differences aside if they were to survive the canadian winter together

nevertheless, american continental seperatist propaganda interpreted the 1760 acts as "intolerable" heretical surrender to subversive roman catholic interests and used it to fuel popularity for the american war of independence... all the more reason to appease the french canadian peasants what with the american war of independence on the horizon

that this principle of multiculturalism was firmly established in the canadian constitution of 1867 and the 1982 charter of rights constitution is a credit to canadian politics... that we've held it together this long without resorting to civil war

civil war amounts to nothing... look at europe... for five hundred they did nothing but fight over kingship, then religion, then finally they began fighting over the nationalist ideals we thought we'd put to rest with the end of the nazis... and when they put it all behind them and formed the european union it looks like little more than a copy of canadian federalism

the constitution of 1867 gave specific powers to the provinces in order that the french and english could run their own social affairs while the federal government could handle such things as war and commerce

the 1982 charter went further and recognized that indians and women were worthy of explicit government protection even if they didn't control any provincial legislature... the courts have also written new law into the general equality clause to include protection of homosexuals... there is an explicit understanding that groups are worthy of protection not only to protect individuals from being singled out for discrimination, but to help them preservie their group status

it is only natural that our political tradition allows us to assimilate people as a group, rather than expecting them to abandon their group affiliation and try to assimilate as individuals

we've already allowed indians a large degree of self government including some discretion over criminal law... why not muslims? in my mind it's the perfect way to assimilate them, teach them canadian values of tolerance in a way that they can appreciate

[TigersEye]

... the 1982 charter went further and recognized that indians and women were worthy of explicit government protection even if they didn't control any provincial legislature...

Woooo weeeee! You guys really are cutting edge aren't you?

... why not muslims? in my mind it's the perfect way to assimilate them, teach them canadian values of tolerance in a way that they can appreciate.

IOW's make the muslims as dumb and ineffectual as the rest of you and no one will have to worry.