If not Bush, then who?

12-28-2003 | agitate

[Agitate]

I've noticed several threads where people say they will not vote for Bush if he supports certain causes. Some include:

Memogate:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1045476/posts

Broad Amnesty in immigration:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1046165/posts

(Please don't see this as an attack on those threads or any comments in them, it's not.)

While I agree with the conservative position on both of these threads, I don't understand how a person could not vote for Bush even if he does some things that are inexplicable from a conservative point of view.

My belief is nothing could be worse than a democrat in office in 2004. I know that is the lesser of two evils vote, but it is true.

Even if Bush gave amnesty to immigrants to pander to hispanics, which would be disgusting, is that reason enough to allow a democrat a greater chance to get in office? Wouldn't the dems likely do worse?

[dcwusmc]

You know, you and I were having a reasonable conversation. Leatherneck_MT has many (if not most) of the values that I do and was, near as I can figure, expressing them in a reasonable way. Why is it that you two act like the other has just pissed in your Cheerios? Gatorbait, IIRC, you swung the first blow here. Please be as reasonable with him as you were with me. Don't come across like FairlyOpinionated or unpardonable always do. I KNOW you can do better; now I've come to EXPECT it from you. Don't let me down. Thanks.

[Consort]

If he loses in 2004 because myself and others stayed home or voted for others......then maybe the GOP will evaluate where it came from and where its going, and why it has lost people along the way.

If the GOP loses, we all lose, just like we did in '92 because of misguided "pseudo-conservative patriots" like you. You people are giving individualism a bad name and you're putting your distorted ideology ahead of country, party, and the rest of us. You still think it's just about you. If big, unlimited government makes you unhappy, then prepare to be unhappy for as long as you live. That's the way it is.

[Consort]

See post 419.

See post 422.

[FairOpinion]

"Bush would make any perceptible movement toward restoring the Constitution, he would lock up my vote and many others, but as it is, he isn't so he won't lock up those votes. And I assure you, they may well be the difference for him."

===

Exaclty. You have already made it very clear that you prefer President Dean to President Bush, because that's who we are going to get, if Bush loses. I am sure President Dean will be much more to your liking, right?

[dcwusmc]

Then we may just all lose. If Bush won't change his ways and people like you let him get away with his shennannigans, then people like me, whose line in the sand he's long since crossed, will sit out and/or vote third party. If you don't want that to happen, you have an obligation to yourself, if no one else, to make that point clear to Mr. Bush. I assure you, you'll get nowhere beating up on us because we are fed up with his actions and want him held accountable.

And, as I said, the scare tactics MIGHT impress a kindergartner. Go six blocks THATAWAY and see. If that's the best you have to offer me (or the rest of us), Bush is already toast. (But I suspect it IS all you have to offer... he CAN'T run to conservatives on his record, can he? Half a loaf? Not even a single SLICE as far as I can see.)

[dcwusmc]

You just can't stop can you? I mean, President Dean. Come on. Give me a REAL reason to support bush... IF you can. I suspect there IS no reason beyond fear for you. So get used to saying President Dean, if you can't do better than that. I won't vote for him, nor support him, but if enough of us sit out because Bush's minions can't point to REAL reasons to support HIM, he's toast and your nightmare will come to life. Perhaps then you might consider how to get your party to actually STAND for something once again. Remember how Reagan got nominated and elected, twice? People knew what he stood for and they loved it. Same thing with the Contract for America which helped get the pubbies a congressional majority for the first time in decades. That and the AWB passed by the Rats... but people responded when pubbies STOOD FOR SOMETHING. Now they stand for nothing and fall for anything... and you want my vote for THAT??????? Get real.

[Consort]

Then we may just all lose.

And you accuse others of using scare tactics?....shame on you. Your "line in the sand(box)" is as kindergartner as you accuse others of being. You'll never win support by whining.

If Bush won't change his ways...

Bush won't change any more than the Democrats will change.

[gatorbait]

DC,

Check your freepmail, my friend.

Dave

[Leatherneck_MT]

My apologies to the board. I let someone get under my skin and really should not have.

[FairOpinion]

"You just can't stop can you? I mean, President Dean. Come on. Give me a REAL reason to support bush... "

===

I just did. Your options are: President Bush or President Dean. NO THIRD CHOICE. An apparent third choice still gets you President Dean.

Why can't people get this simple math through their heads?

It's exactly the same, as when the "disgruntely conservatives" voted for Ross Perot, and gave us 8 years of Clinton.

And they never learn.

[dcwusmc]

Well, when you and yours start showing a modicum of respect for me and mine, we can talk. Since we are always either right wingnuts or losertarians or whatever is the perjorative of the day, right up until times like this when you deliver the ultimatum of "Bush or Dean, there's no other choice," you make me want to hurl. ANYTHING I want to see done to roll back FedGov to its Constitutional limits is laughable to you. So, sorry, you ain't going to have it your way. I ain't Burger King, though you have told some whoppers. Get used to it. Convince Bush that he needs to set the ship of state on a new course, AWAY from the abyss and I will support him. Otherwise, no way. No more settling for the lesser (in YOUR view) evil. No more holding my nose. It's raw and red from all I've had to do so far. If there is no one I can vote for and be PROUD of that vote, then I shall withhold it. If Bush wants and needs it, he can EARN it. And you know what the price is.

[Kevin Curry]

Bush has persuaded me that he does not want my vote. He is apparently convinced he will pick up sufficient cross-over votes from the pro-socialist Democrat side to win a second term.

Bush has "done the math" and told me to take a hike. Good enough. He won't get my vote.

[dcwusmc]

If Bush won't change his evil ways, he may be toast, just like Daddy. It's all in his hands. My vote is available for a price. You KNOW what that price is. There can be millions of votes available to him for the same price. You know it. Make sure BUSH knows it. When you start treating us with the same respect you DEMAND, and start actually LISTENING, then we can talk. Until then, bugger off.

(And I did not accuse you of BEING a kindergartner; only of treating US like one... and it doesn't work very well...)

[FairOpinion]

And what did Dean do to persuade you to get your vote?

[dcwusmc]

Well... It's not anything BUSH has done or failed to do, is it? We have been bought off. FairlyOpinionated, go get a life... of your own. Leave your betters (which is virtually EVERYONE ELSE) alone. I know Kevin will say the same as I am telling you: My vote is for sale. The price is integrity and demonstrated action to SHRINK FedGov to its CONSTITUTIONAL SIZE. Nothing less. No lesser evil. No GREATER evil. No evil at all. That's my price and I'm reasonably sure Kevin's price won't be any lower. Can't meet it or don't WANT it met? Say goodbye to PRESIDENT Bush and a big hello to EX-43. Speaking for myself, I am implacable in this. I strongly suspect millions of other voters are, as well. Wanna find out?

[arasina]

I've just been reading some of the latest posts to this thread. A lot of hot-headed arguments going on with many claiming to be "principled" by opposing the re-election of President Bush.

What I find interesting is that many FReepers who have stated they are not going to vote for Dubya in 2004 are sitting on their behinds posting on Free Republic instead of getting behind their perfect candidate(s).

Where are those perfect candidates who are going to save us all not only from another George W. Bush presidency but a Democrat presidency? Where are those perfect candidates that are actually going to win the election, preserve the Constitution, impeach some SCOTUS judges, win Congressional and Senate races by a significant margin, put Hillary out of her socialist misery and Dean back into his outsider status? Where are those perfect candidates who are so much better than President Bush?

Iowa Caucuses will be held in about 3 weeks., then we have New Hampshire and South Carolina primaries. Better get those principled and perfect candidates on the ballot soon so they can cruise to certain victory.

[dcwusmc]

No one is looking for perfection. All I ask is that someone actually change heading instead of driving to the same abyss at a little slower speed... though Bush seems in many ways to have INCREASED speed. But you are obviously another one of the "but he's better than __(fill in the blank)__" or "Bush: at least he's not a Democrat" crowd. Sorry. When you convince him to change course noticeably, I will support him. Until then, tell Karl Rove that he can kiss my all-American a$$. And perhaps kiss his tenure at 1600 goodbye.

[arasina]

I know who you are AGAINST. I wonder just who you are FOR.

(I also wonder if you, as a born-again Christian, could perhaps please respond without using profanity?)

[Consort]

If Bush won't change his evil ways,...

Quit the whining and stop pretending you're a conservative. Move to France if you can't hack it.

[dcwusmc]

I did not use "profanity," which involves profaning the name of God. Salty language is what it's called and when you 'bots start showing some respect and stop getting on my last nerve with your snide comments and utter lack of civility, perhaps I won't be p.o.'d at you such that I can curb my tongue easier.

You can also rest assured that I am not FOR any Rat. If I cannot proudly vote for Bush (and I cannot, under current circumstances), I will leave that one blank. Or vote for a third party candidate I CAN be proud to support... as I was proud to support Tom McClintock in our recent recall election. Now it comes out that those who voted for the Governator got Maria Shriver instead... and all her HARD-Left cronies... How UNsurprising... So my vote will either go to someone I can be VERY comfortable with, or it will be withheld. If Bush wants my vote he must EARN it, by upholding his oath to support the Constitution and by starting to steer the ship of State noticeably AWAY FROM the abyss in front of us. Even a few degrees would be a good start. ANYTHING that can be shown reasonably to constitute progress. Otherwise, you have my answer.