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State Productivity Study Upsets Professors
Chicago Tribune | December 26, 2003 | Robert Becker

Posted on 12/26/2003 7:05:38 AM PST by tom paine 2

Edited on 12/26/2003 7:32:01 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

The Illinois Board of Higher Education has launched a controversial examination of faculty productivity, a move that has riled professors at public universities throughout the state.

Having challenged university administrators to pare costs and increase their own productivity, board Chairman James Kaplan wants to take the same look at college faculty.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: academia; highereducation; productivity; professors
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They should look at their outrageous pension plans too
1 posted on 12/26/2003 7:05:38 AM PST by tom paine 2
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To: tom paine 2
I teach at a private Ohio university, and can tell you that the two factors we mainly use to evaluate faculty---teaching and research---and highly fluid before tenure, then are set in stone afterward. And, it is almost all in FAVOR of the faculty member. For example, we tenure people who, according to student teaching evals, are not very good teachers . . . but their research is above average. On the other hand, we tend to overlook poorer research records if someone is a great teacher.

However, once you grant tenure, there is ZERO leverage you have over a tenured faculty member, unless they are totally incompetent. Pay raises are so minor as to fail to affect teacher productivity; and if you "punish" poor teachers by giving them MORE classes, you are actually punishing the students.

The problem arises because after 6+ years you get to know people and hate to "fire" them, so you (not me, but most) look for "reasons" to justify keeping them on. It's all very humane for the instructor, and deadly for the students.

There is a third factor that plays into the evals, and that is "service," which is to say "networking" on faculty committees that, IMHO, accomplishes nothing. I know, many of my colleagues would disagree, and have solid arguments. I serve on as few committees as possible; publish more than the rest of the department put together in some years; and always have teaching evals well above the std. deviation. I argue that I CAN do these things BECAUSE I don't serve on these stupid, time-sucking committees.

Anyway, bottom line: it's nearly impossible for the state government in any way to fix a "productivity" measure for faculty, esp. once they are already tenured.

2 posted on 12/26/2003 7:20:51 AM PST by LS (CNN is the Amtrack of news.)
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To: tom paine 2
Welcome to the real world professor.
3 posted on 12/26/2003 7:28:36 AM PST by bobjam
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To: bobjam
Heh. I've been in the "real world" plenty. For the first 10 years of my working career, I played in a touring rock band, where we often starved. I had no home, no cash, really a van and my drums and some hope.

When I had enough of not eating, I completely re-tooled myself, got a Ph.D. (after having terrible grades as an undergrad) and got jobs teaching when everyone said there were no jobs. As a white male writing on American history, I nevertheless managed to get not one, but two job offers. It is possible, which is what I tell grad students who are serious about "making it" in the profession.

4 posted on 12/26/2003 7:37:49 AM PST by LS (CNN is the Amtrack of news.)
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To: tom paine 2
I was married for many years to a former Illinois professor. Once he got tenure, they couldn't have fired him if they caught him performing unnatural acts with the dean's Golden Retriever. Most of the professors there worked about three hours a week, teaching one graduate-level class, and while they were ostensibly doing research the rest of the time, the fact is that their graduate students were slaving away 18 hours a day to do the research the professors would put their names on.

It's a little different at the University of Chicago, where you have Nobel Prize winners teaching the undergraduates. State bureaucracy is inherently corrupt, I fear.

5 posted on 12/26/2003 8:13:54 AM PST by Capriole (Foi vainquera)
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To: LS
" For example, we tenure people who, according to student teaching evals, are not very good teachers . . . but their research is above average. On the other hand, we tend to overlook poorer research records if someone is a great teacher. "

Do you have a solution to this problem? Just curious.
6 posted on 12/26/2003 8:42:24 AM PST by international american (support our troops................itch slap a liberal today!)
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To: international american
If a student perceives an untenured prof to be less than competent, best to turn in a totally bad eval rather than give the benefit of a doubt. That way, (1) the average is pulled down; (2) the bad prof is either put on notice to improve or (3) the bad prof does not make tenure.

Once tenured, a bad prof is effectively impossible to remove, so focus on the untenured profs.

7 posted on 12/26/2003 9:04:59 AM PST by SteveH
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To: SteveH
"Once tenured, a bad prof is effectively impossible to remove, so focus on the untenured profs."

You make sense to me. I don't think we should abolish tenure
though, as it would be difficult for a conservative to keep a job:)
8 posted on 12/26/2003 9:12:26 AM PST by international american (support our troops................itch slap a liberal today!)
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To: tom paine 2
Any source link for the article?

I went to college in Illinois. I deliberately avoided the U of I, because it had a reputation for letting grad-students teach the undergrads. Full professors were too busy with their research and grad-classes to spend much time with the undergrads. I hope that's not the kind of "productivity" they're looking for.

The college I chose was considered a teaching, rather than research, university, so professors who liked to teach handled the majority of the undergrad load.

Unfortunately, I have heard that changed a bit, and only a few of the excellent tenured faculty who taught me still remain.

9 posted on 12/26/2003 9:14:47 AM PST by Snuffington
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To: SteveH
Once tenured, a bad prof is effectively impossible to remove, so focus on the untenured profs.

Not true where states and universities have enacted "post-tenure review;" such as the University of South Carolina.

It effectively abolishes tenure; a failed periodic review, leads to "rehabilitation" or revocation of tenure and dismisal.

While it is true that there are cases of egregious abuse of tenure, its abolishment leads to a "piece-work" mentality. And, what they want when they say "productivity" is grants (government welfare) not necessarily scholarship or excellence in teaching.

Every level of administration "skims" from extramural grants, so in an era of declining state funding, that, literally, is the "bottom line."

10 posted on 12/26/2003 9:26:17 AM PST by DrNo
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To: LS
bottom line: it's nearly impossible for the state government in any way to fix a "productivity" measure for faculty

I would agree and go one step farther.

bottom line: it's impossible for ANY government in any way to fix a "productivity" measure for ANYTHING.

11 posted on 12/26/2003 9:34:50 AM PST by staytrue
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To: LS
Your comments form a cogent argument. I think the best solution to this particular problem is to view every instructor as an independent contractor. Granted that is is nearly impossible to treat them that way but if you start to consider them in that light you might find a way to make it happen.
12 posted on 12/26/2003 9:53:50 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: staytrue
bottom line: it's impossible for ANY government in any way to fix a "productivity" measure for ANYTHING.

Have to agree. This is especially true at the federal government level. There have been various half-hearted efforts to implement evaluation systems (e.g., merit pay) that supposedly rate productivity by comparing levels of achievement vs. specific objectives. However, the systems are easily gamed, and largely defeated by, wily bureaucrats.

13 posted on 12/26/2003 10:19:46 AM PST by Starboard
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To: LS
I wonder how one determines the "product" to be measured.
14 posted on 12/26/2003 10:47:46 AM PST by Old Professer
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To: LS
I argue that I CAN do these things BECAUSE I don't serve on these stupid, time-sucking committees.

Probably true, but are you tenured? Don't new profs have to do some amount of service to have a well-rounded portolio for tenure review?

I'm a doctoral student serving a 2nd year on a major committee in my school. It hasn't been bad, but last year I was on 2 big committees and it almost killed me because there was so much work to do outside of the committee before we even had the meetings. It was hard to keep up w/my classwork.

15 posted on 12/26/2003 11:06:38 AM PST by radiohead
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To: tom paine 2
faculty productivity

Measured, of course, by how many of their students become top-notch professionals.

16 posted on 12/26/2003 11:12:03 AM PST by RightWhale (Close your tag lines)
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To: LS
I have often wondered about the following and maybe you could lend your opinion. First of all I feel that teachers unions and tenure is the primary cause (next to parental neglect, not school financing) of our instutional educational failure. Having said that the issue of reform crosses my mind, and on the University level, what would happen if the the government linked a requirement to government funds (whether they be through subsidies, grants or pell grants) that instutions could not practice tenure and that every professor has to stand accountable to the quality and productivity of their work (teaching) like every other organization in a competitive society unless they waived any form of Governmental support. Also there would be a "minimum" classroom hours requirement that would double (in the minimum) the time of professors in the classroom.

I suspect that one might say that "research" would suffer but I would say so what. Are we talking about education or research. I resent that the parents are carrying the burden of research through the vehicle of tuition, and I further resent that the taxpayers are continally subjected to the guilt transference of supporting the schools because it is "for the children." Most of the research is nonsense anyway and doesn't have an economic valuable result and if it does it should find its own sugardaddy and leave the students and taxpayers alone.

If I were king I would make the profs. stand or fall on their own merit and productivity. In other words tough S**T.

17 posted on 12/26/2003 12:16:31 PM PST by scannell
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To: radiohead
I'm tenured. Actually, we try to shield our untenured faculty from too many committees. Unfortunately, many "serve" (I think) to "network," but "networking" won't save your job if you don't produce.
18 posted on 12/26/2003 2:38:20 PM PST by LS (CNN is the Amtrack of news.)
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To: international american
I don't. My solution would be for faculty to do their job in evaluations. Unfortunately, "peer review" means that people let such things as "good syllibi" or "well-designed tests" determine whether or not someone is a good teacher rather than student evals.

Hey, I'm NO FAN of student evals---it's like letting the inmates run the asylum---but I do think that if ALL YOUR CLASSES say on evaluations that a) they "didn't learn much" and that they "wouldn't recommend the class to someone else" or that you are, in their view, a "poor professor," then something is up. And studies have shown there is no correlation between high student evals and easy grading. Tough graders routinely get good evals if they are good teachers.

In the perfect world, a combination of ADMINISTRATOR review (not "peers") and student evals would be optimal. I have proposed a system at our school where anyone with 2/3 of their student evals more than 1 standard deviation below the department average should not be given tenure. This assumes that everyone will have a bad class now and then. However, I also open the door to "peer review," but it must contain very specific comments, and comments like "students sleeping" or "not engaged" should be warning flags.

19 posted on 12/26/2003 2:45:12 PM PST by LS (CNN is the Amtrack of news.)
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To: af_vet_1981
I would have no problem with the "independent contractor" idea, but you must realize that we have had times in our history---the "Red Scare" and, today, the "PC" movement---when good teachers/researchers would be given the boot simply because their IDEAS aren't popular, and that's what tenure was designed to protect: unpopular ideas, so long as they can be evaluated. I do NOT advocate continuing to teach falsehoods, such as "flat earth" or Marx just because they are unpopular---at some point, the evidence needs to form a conclusion.

The other benefit of tenure, though, is that research, by its nature, takes a great deal of time and you don't always show results right away. A more rapid "productivity review" I think would punish people doing brilliant and sophisticated (but time-consuming) work.

This, for example, is the debate between disciplines when, say, economists look at historians' work. It takes very little for an economist to formulate a hypothesis, get some grad students to accumultate the data, and run it through computers. They can get a brief article out in no time. But try, for example, studying antebellum bank records in the South, like I did, where I had to read documents that were in poor condition and written in a nearly foreign hand . . in EVERY SINGLE SOUTHERN STATE, all for a period of about 30 years. Well, that takes a little bit of time. So tenure has its uses.

20 posted on 12/26/2003 2:50:56 PM PST by LS (CNN is the Amtrack of news.)
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