Late Neanderthals 'more like us'

BBC ^ | 12-24-93 | Paul Rincon

[going hot]

No one questioned what authority established the rights of the citizens.

If I remember correctly, King George questioned that. The colonials backed up their play with force of arms, successfully, which resulted in the favorable outcome.
Should the king's men have prevailed, I doubt it would have mattered where the colonials thought their rights eminated from.

[ZULU]

"Classical" Neanderthals had MUCH heavier bones and muscle attachments than modern man. Although stockier and of shorter stature, they were far tougher, physically,than we are.

The thrust of this article, and the argument under discussion, is whether or not "Modern Man" evolved independently in Europe, Asia and Africa, or he developed in Africa and moved into Eurasia, displacing the earlier Hominin populations there.

This particular article seems to imply that there was a degree of intermixing between early modern man and Neanderthal man in parts of Europe.

I would agree, if you took a late Neanderthal, gave him a bath, sahve and haircut and put him in a business suit, he would probably look just like a very strong modern man with rough features and in a city like New York would probably not stand out at all.

[NeonKnight]

Yes, there are a few knuckledraggers in NYC.

Have they aquired sufficient DNA strands from Neanderthal to determine the claims made in this article? Are they a seperate species? Can this be proven without DNA?

Are (were) they as seperate from us as a chimp is to an orang? I HAVE to know the answere to these questions.

[bondserv]

If I remember correctly, King George questioned that. The colonials backed up their play with force of arms, successfully, which resulted in the favorable outcome. Should the king's men have prevailed, I doubt it would have mattered where the colonials thought their rights eminated from.

And thus the greatest nation in the history of man would have been destined to be ruled by another dictator whose laws were supported by big guns.

Are nation had the freedom to go through a Civil War, where "moral right" prevailed over democracy.

[bondserv]

Are = Our

[greenwolf]

"Classical" Neanderthals had MUCH heavier bones and muscle attachments than modern man. Although stockier and of shorter stature, they were far tougher, physically,than we are.

Images I've seen simply do not show that much difference between neanderthal and modern skeletons other than height. At least one article on the web describes the neanderthal as a 5'6" endomorph marginally different in build from modern people living in cold climates. That's basically a 5 foot six eskimo. How much of a chance would you give a five foot six eskimo in the ring with Rocky Marciano?

This particular article seems to imply that there was a degree of intermixing between early modern man and Neanderthal man in parts of Europe.

That contradicts everything I've read. One typical article describes modern man and neanderthals as last sharing a common ancestor about half a million years ago. Articles I've read describe neanderthal DNA as ape-like and not related to ours at all.

[Barnacle]

Late Neanderthals 'more like us'

I'd like to believe that we share at least some traits with punctual Neanderthals.

?;^T

[tpaine]

tpaine:
Beliefs become problems when they are posed as being 'absolutes'.. Do we agree?

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[No answer]
---BTW, do you believe that the north pole is indeed where it is although you have never been there? -VRWC-

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Sure do, - seeing that that our axis of spin is an observable fact any starry night.. You don't?
33 tpaine

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So, you observe the immutable laws of nature.

Yet, the origin of such laws seems to elude you.
Hmmm, absolute laws with no absolute origin. Oh sweet delusion.
36 -VRWC-

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Typical absolutism.

We agree that observations of facts lead us to see the laws of nature, but then you infer that I am delusional unless your beliefs are accepted as to their origins.


Sweet delusions indeed.

[Spok]

"Late Neanderthals 'more like us'"

I thought this article was about FReepers...(humor)

[tpaine]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

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Only if you are willing to collectively or individually die for those rights. Otherwise, you simply have no more than what someone wishes to give you.
38 going hot

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That was the beauty of the original ideas behind the Constitution.

No one questioned what authority established the rights of the citizens.

Now with the humanistic relativism of the Liberal and the Libertarian sects, anything goes.
Oh well, Satan was bound to eventually divert attention off of the true and living God and begin the demise of the greatest Union of peoples in human history.
39 bondserv

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Those words of our DOI parse just as well, and mean the same, if we eliminate the references to creators:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are equal, that they are endowed with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Men need no 'authorities' to establish our rights, Bondserv..

-- In effect, as Going Hot observes, -- our self-evident rights are established by being willing to die for them.

[SevenDaysInMay]

Most discussion of this topic fails to overlay the glaciation crowding these peoples together then receeding some 10,000 y.a.

Fighting over caves or sharing caves in crisis formed socieities in the frontiers, and the occasional cuddle.

Disease carried north and into Europe would have been as mighty as the improved weapon.

To deny evolution is to deny current differentiations of physiques and breeding partner opportunities. Athletic attractive men and women tend to breed together, not with obese or feathery forms. Average retail clerks and professional ball players are from different stock.

[Polybius]

He dies, probably of illness or old age, and these scientists just won't leave his bones alone. Can't a man rest in peace?

No. Not even if Michelangelo sculpted your tomb.

Can Dynasty Detectives Unearth The Medici Secrets?

[going hot]

eggs ackley

(With apologies to freeper of same name)

[Junior]

Differences extended to the angle at which the spinal cord entered the skull, the heavier and thicker frontal (brow) bones and the dentition; in addition to the heavier cross-section of the limb bones and the larger muscle anchor points. Skilled anthropologists and paleontologists have no problem differentiating between Homo Sapien and Homo Neanderthalensis.

[greenwolf]

How much of a chance would YOU give a five-foot six eskimo in the ring with Rocky Marciano?

[VadeRetro]

Although stockier and of shorter stature, they were far tougher, physically,than we are.

In addition to the well-known brow ridge (which early Homo sapiens had and some people still show), Neanderthals had a low-crowned brain case extending in a "bun" in the back. They had bell-shaped rib cages which together with short lower vertebrae and wide hips meant they had almost no "waist" area. That is, their rib cages hung low over their hips, reducing flexibility but giving them better armor against the kind of "gut wound" that was inevitably fatal until sometime in the 20th century. They also had rather funny upper-arm/lower arm and upper-leg/lower leg ratios. (The lower parts of the limbs were short, outside the range of modern variation.)

You're right that they were "built tough." They show the same pattern of injuries as veteran rodeo cowboys: lots of healed breaks. In hunting big animals, they apparently didn't use the kind of weapons you throw or shoot from a distance.

[bondserv]

Men need no 'authorities' to establish our rights, Bondserv..

A bigger Gun always establishes rights.

Unless of course a people acknowledge a superior being whose truth's transcend any man's ideas of right and wrong.
Ala the United States Founding Fathers!

Many wish to change this with faulty logic and TORT lawyering from the NYU School of Law.

[bondserv]

Submission to one stronger than us does not take real humility.(Islam) It can be very practical to acknowledge someone’s power through fear. Humility takes recognition that the One in authority over you is a superior being. We have personal knowledge of Jesus Christ, once knowing Him, humility becomes a choice. Unalienable rights. True equality, because His judgements are righteous and true. USA, one nation under the God of our founding fathers who is quite different than the imports. Freedom.

He is worthy of our worship, by filtering all of our thoughts and deeds through His love and wisdom.

[blam]

"They show the same pattern of injuries as veteran rodeo cowboys: lots of healed breaks. In hunting big animals, they apparently didn't use the kind of weapons you throw or shoot from a distance."

I can't argue with this point but, I do wonder who was using these 400, 000 year Old spears found in Germany.

[tpaine]

Those words of our DOI parse just as well, and mean the same, if we eliminate the references to creators:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are equal, that they are endowed with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Men need no 'authorities' to establish our rights, Bondserv..

-- In effect, as Going Hot observes, -- our self-evident rights are established by being willing to die for them.
50 -tpaine-

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bondserv wrote:
A bigger Gun always establishes rights.

Unless of course a people acknowledge a superior being whose truth's transcend any man's ideas of right and wrong.

Ala the United States Founding Fathers!
Many wish to change this with faulty logic and TORT lawyering from the NYU School of Law.

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Nope, you have it backwards:

Acknowledging 'the authority' of superior beings "whose truth's transcend any man's ideas of right and wrong" only encourage some men to grant themseves such godlike powers. -- Such -- 'authorities', in using a bigger gun, only violate our rights in bigger ways.