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Pro-Gay Chicago Catholic Priests Send Open Letter Ripping "Vile and Toxic" Rhetoric of the Vatican
Catholic Citizens of Illinois ^ | 12/22/2003 | Shamus Toomey

Posted on 12/23/2003 8:18:05 AM PST by marshmallow

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To: stands2reason
Stands to reason, stands2reason. =)

It's amazing how much more consistent my own thinking has become once I began cutting through the conceits by which I too used to rationalize the unnatural and the immoral.

Curiously enough, it's turned out to be a great weight off my mind ... a liberation of sorts from having to jump through the hoops or perform the mental gymnastics necessary to sustain the artificial realities once I thought were "equal" somehow.
201 posted on 12/23/2003 6:48:14 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Incorrigible; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; ...
Yes, I agree, this so-called priest needs to be excommunicated.
202 posted on 12/23/2003 7:49:45 PM PST by Coleus (God is Pro-Life & Straight & gave us an innate predisposition for protection and self preservation)
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To: Coleus
He is a wicked man who hates the truth. He is confusing and corrupting many people.

Letting him retain his faculties for even a day after this is a scandal in and of itself.

There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Proverbs 6:16-19

203 posted on 12/23/2003 8:38:21 PM PST by cpforlife.org (The Missing Key of the Pro-Life Movement is at www.CpForLife.org)
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To: sinkspur
There's not a chance of producing children.

The Church does not offer medical opinions, as far as I know.

The Church is about revealing God and his presence in the world. All Christian marriage, even without offspring (I will not say "fruitless"), is iconic of Christ and the Church. It seems not too much to say that faithful iconography as a vocation is itself a sort of marital fruitfulness. The sacraments exist to reveal God in his simplicity.

204 posted on 12/23/2003 10:12:41 PM PST by Romulus (Nothing really good ever happened after 1789.)
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To: sinkspur
Are you saying you have a problem with incest or homosexuality?
205 posted on 12/23/2003 11:13:59 PM PST by stands2reason
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To: biblewonk
Wrong. To be Catholic one must maintain the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, and Authority. That is what the Living Magisterium Teaches.

What you believe about the Catholic Church is an error. You do not understand the distinction twixt Doctrine and Sin.

206 posted on 12/24/2003 3:31:34 AM PST by Catholicguy
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To: stands2reason
Answer my questions first.
207 posted on 12/24/2003 5:39:49 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: saradippity
You may not agree with me but I am interested in your take on this.

It sounds like your new bishop had better be as wise as a serpent as well as innocent as a dove.

208 posted on 12/24/2003 6:23:25 AM PST by malakhi (Stop negativity -- ban electrons.)
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To: stands2reason
Doctrine of the Seamless Garment

Not a true Church doctrine, but rather an approach to sin and the human condition prolomgated by the US Bishops that states that a human soul can be compared to a silken garment, and that any sin is like a rent in that garment.

The idea seemed to be proposed in order to remind us that we were all sinners (all very Biblical) but the practical upshot was that, since any sin was a rent in the garment, than no one had the right judge the sins of another - we were all, after all, imperfect.

While it is all well and good to remind us to remove the beam from our eye before commenting upon the speck in our neighbors, it was simply foolish (and anti-doctrinal) for the Bishops to support a position which said, as a practical matter, that lay people could not and should not distinguish between sins of various gravity.

209 posted on 12/24/2003 7:00:35 AM PST by jscd3
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To: AnAmericanMother
Another lovely one:

Yes, there are lots of good ones for anyone who wants a lovely and inspiring desktop screen. Here's the link again since the one I posted above was partially messed up:

Our Lady's Premier Gallery Sacred Images

Here's another example in time for Christmas:


210 posted on 12/24/2003 8:34:15 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: malakhi
Good advice. I guess I thought if anyone might see some reason to see the EX'es attendance as non-intrusive or neutral you could. That's a compliment;it means you often see things from a different perspective that make me look a second time. And so,although I wish you would come back,I wish you and your family a wonderful,joy filled Holyday Season.
211 posted on 12/24/2003 9:02:58 AM PST by saradippity
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To: saradippity
Thanks, sara. May you and your family have a blessed Christmas.
212 posted on 12/24/2003 9:04:17 AM PST by malakhi (And the work of righteousness shall be peace.)
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To: biblewonk
Catholics are always claiming that there are 20,000 different protestant denominations. I have always maintained that there are as many different Catholic denominations are there are Catholic churches

Then, you have always been wrong.

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. There are various ways of sinning against faith:

Voluntary doubt about the faith disregards or refuses to hold as true what God has revealed and the Church proposes for belief. Involuntary doubt refers to hesitation in believing, difficulty in overcoming objections connected with the faith, or also anxiety aroused by its obscurity. If deliberately cultivated doubt can lead to spiritual blindness.

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

Our Faith is exoteric and easily knowable - just pick-up a Catechism. When Christian Catholics oppose the Faith they are, depending on their circumstances, a heretic, a schismatic, or an apostate. There are NO "denominations" within Christianity. It is true that some have rejected part or parts of Christian Doctrine (those such as yourself) and they go off and start their own churches. It is ONLY the Catholic Church which has a Divine Origin. We were esta;lished by Jesus (matt 16:18). ALL other denominations were started by men who repudiated part or parts of the Truth.

I know this has been explained to you before. I hope this reminder will be helpful

213 posted on 12/24/2003 2:00:19 PM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Maximilian
Love that one, Maximilian!
214 posted on 12/24/2003 2:01:33 PM PST by livius
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To: Roughneck
show me where it says that in the Bible - and who decides what the "basics" are?
215 posted on 12/24/2003 2:02:50 PM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Catholicguy; biblewonk
Actually, I think biblewonk has a point. Once upon a time (prior to VatII), this would not have been the case.

The sad thing is that now anybody - Sister Snowflake, Father Barcalounger, Brother Bruce - feels perfectly at ease in "defining" Catholic doctrine.
216 posted on 12/24/2003 2:04:34 PM PST by livius
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To: Taliesan
The Inquisition used force. The First Inquisitor was Moses. He had 47,000 individuals murdered - including women in children - in just two days.

Is it only Christians you castigate?

217 posted on 12/24/2003 2:04:36 PM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Itzlzha
He dug and found that JFK was trashed at a party

If that was true then no marriage occured.

218 posted on 12/24/2003 2:06:21 PM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Taliesan
It might also be the case they were trained by incompetents in a Seminary the Local Bishop was inattentive to.

These priests ought to be called on the Chancery carpet and the Bishop can decide for himself if they are informed about the truth they desire to reject.

There have always been wheat and chaff within the Church. We are ALL sinful men. The Church is a hospital for the spiritually sick. WE try and heal 'em, first. It sure is a lot easier, though, just to kick out the ones who sin though

BTW, homosexual activity is only ONE of the "sins crying to Heaven for vengance."

Mebbe, the Church could also excommunicate those who defraud the laborers of their wages. Do you know the other sins crying to Heaven for vengeance and should those foklks also be immediately excommunicated?

219 posted on 12/24/2003 2:11:56 PM PST by Catholicguy
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To: Incorrigible
What we have here, is a failure to excommunicate!

If the RC church would really get serious and excommunicate everyone that needs it (~90% of US Catholics including nearly all the politicians), I might have enough respect to re-join them. Then again, most evangelical churches don't excommunicate either. I've only seen it done a few times.

What is it going to take for American Christians to regain their moral seriousness?

220 posted on 12/24/2003 2:13:18 PM PST by Rytwyng
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