Pro-Gay Chicago Catholic Priests Send Open Letter Ripping "Vile and Toxic" Rhetoric of the Vatican

Catholic Citizens of Illinois ^ | 12/22/2003 | Shamus Toomey

[Catholicguy]

Try and break yourself of this annoying habit of yours. You are not a Christian Catholic, you are ignorant of our Doctrine and so you have no basis for repeatedly making such inane judgements.

[Rytwyng]

Mebbe, the Church could also excommunicate those who defraud the laborers of their wages.

Yes, good idea. Enron executives, too.

Do you know the other sins crying to Heaven for vengeance and should those foklks also be immediately excommunicated?

Abortion, for starters.

[Catholicguy]

Homosexuality within the clergy was more pronounced in 1000 a.d. then it is now. St. Peter Damian famously wrote about them. For the most part, these old flamers are burning out.

It is right they ought never have been allowed into the seminary in the first place but don't let the world convince you the problem is greater than it is

[Rytwyng]

There have always been wheat and chaff within the Church. We are ALL sinful men. The Church is a hospital for the spiritually sick. WE try and heal 'em, first. It sure is a lot easier, though, just to kick out the ones who sin though

I think we have to distinguish between compassionate support for those who struggle, versus tolerance of those who don't even pretend to try to quit, and deny that they're doing anything wrong.

An alcoholic, for instance, might be sincerely trying to overcome his addiction -- yet might fall off the wagon a few times in the process -- and Christians owe that man a helping hand. But if he refuses to even admit that there's anything wrong, and especially if he organizes "Alcoholic Pride" parades and tries to get churches to quit teaching about the sin of drunkeness -- then, kicking him out of the church is the best possible course of action, for 2 reasons: (a) the church must be protected from his contaminating influence, and (b) Christian love requires that he not be allowed to retain his illusion that he's a believer in good standing.

[Catholicguy]

I have to disagree. What the Christian Church teaches is easily knowable. And it is our duty to know it.

[Taliesan]

Read more carefully. I haven't castigated Christians. I am a Christian.

[Taliesan]

Read more carefully. I haven't called for anyone to be excommunicated.

Really, read the words on the page, not the other ones.

[stands2reason]

Okay, if you want to play that way, no, I have no problem with those things.

Now will you answer my question? Do you have a problem with incest? Do you think it's fair to exclude incestuous couples from the "it's okay for two consensual adults to have sex."

[sinkspur]

Yes to both.

[Catholicguy]

I just know you are not this dense. The Inquisition used force. Somebody on this thread has already yelled about false dichotomy -- well, here is a flaming false dichotomy: either we let homosexuals become priests, or we have to oil up the thumb screw again. Since we'll be criticized for either, we just can't win, it's just so unfair, our critics just can't be satisfied, etc. Come on. The church has a perfectly BIBLICAL right to examine candidates for the clergy and exclude those not of a certain character, and remove those who exhibit undesirable traits. This has nothing to do with force. Are you seriously arguing that these gay priests CANNOT BE KEPT OUT OF THE MINISTRY except by something resembling the Inquisition?

The entire post was about the Christian Inquisition. I merely pointed out Moses was the First Inquisitor. You are castigating trhe Christian Inquisition, thus my question.

As you say, "I just know you are not this dense."

[biblewonk]

As for the issue at hand, I think that there are really just a few fundamental issues that separate us: sola Scriptura, the papacy, and the faith of the Fathers. Come to agreement on those, and the rest will follow. Focus on the rest, and there is no solution. (My 2 cents).

Thanks for the seasons wishes. Yes my many debates with Catholics always lead to the same root causes. We have very different views of the Scriptures and how much authority those Scriptures hand over to the Church and/or it's leadership. It always boils down to that.

[biblewonk]

you are ignorant of our Doctrine and so you have no basis for repeatedly making such inane judgements.

LOL. Yeah you have to be a Catholic to understand what you believe.