Pro-Gay Chicago Catholic Priests Send Open Letter Ripping "Vile and Toxic" Rhetoric of the Vatican

Catholic Citizens of Illinois ^ | 12/22/2003 | Shamus Toomey

[Rytwyng]

As Catholic pastors... we find particularly troubling the increase in the use of violent and abusive language directed at any human person. Such language is inappropriate.

Ye brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

These divisive and exclusionary statements from the Church are contrary to sound pastoral practice.

Think not that I came to bring peace; I came not to bring peace, but division.

The life journey in faith is unique and sacred, including the personal integration of sexuality and spirituality.

He that findeth a wife, findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favor from the Lord.

As priests and pastors we are speaking out to make clear that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters are all members of God¹s family, brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus and deserving of the same dignity and respect owed [nb: OWED!!?!?] any human being.

When I told you not to associate with the sexually immoral, I did not mean, avoid the sexually immoral people of this world, for then you would have to go out of the world. But rather, if a "brother" is... sexually immoral, with such a one DO NOT EVEN EAT.

We affirm the goodness of all homosexual persons. ... we re-affirm the understanding of the goodness of the human person"

There is none righteous, no, not even one.

Pre-judging where any believer¹s journey will take them is inappropriate.

Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Walking with them, as we do with our heterosexual brothers and sisters, is the appropriate Christian response.

How can two walk together, unless they be agreed? What fellowship hath light with darkness?

Has any other group of people within the Body of Christ been so assaulted and violated by such mean-spirited language? Examples from the most recent Vatican document show all too clearly the demonization of these children of God, referring to homosexuality as a "troubling moral and social phenomenon," "a serious depravity," "the spread of the phenomenon," "approval or legalization of evil," "grave detriment to the common good," "harmful to the proper development of human society," "intrinsically disordered."

Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is ABOMINATION.

Does anyone consider this vile and toxic language invitational?

Many are called, but few are chosen.

For many gay and lesbian Catholics, this most recent series of attacks has forced them, out of self-respect and self-love, to withdraw from active participation in the Church and question how they can remain members of a Church they experience as abusive.

Expel the immoral brother.

The Catholic Church is most catholic when it is inclusive and embracing

Broad is the path that leads to destruction.

The Church¹s theology, including her moral teaching, is always in dialogue with the broader lived experience of her members, which shapes and rearticulates the ancient deposit of faith...

.. the faith once and for all delivered to the saints.

That was too easy.

[Taliesan]

I'm sorry. I thought it was "dissent". I didn't know it was "interpretation".

This is all a word game, Dave.

Have a merry Christmas. And when I say "merry", you may interpret that to mean "merry".

Regards.

[SoothingDave]

I'm sorry. I thought it was "dissent". I didn't know it was "interpretation".

These priests are showing "dissent."

The "hierarchy" (whatever that means) is not. They are not that foolish.

Have a merry Christmas. And when I say "merry", you may interpret that to mean "merry".

Same to you and yours.

SD

[polemikos]

The split up of Christianity is due to Christians leaving the Word of God and being deceived by the wolves in sheeps clothing that have crept in. This is a very sad failure.

Agreed. But it leaves all Protestants in the lurch. As you suggest above, virtually all Protestants have their own set of "doctrines", many of which are contradictory and therefore in error (except, of course, yours ;-). The notion that only 1 out of 150 million U.S. Protestants might be right with God is a little tragic, no?

Marianism is anit-scriptural as are so many other RC doctrines.

Not that I have any hope of dissuading you here, but I recommend focusing on the foundational principles first. Otherwise it's like discussing binary math with someone struggling with Arithmetic. Discussing advanced issues when the fundamentals are different is pointless.

You are not looking very closely.

You need look no further than the Catechism for the doctrinal basics. Anyone who wants to know what the Church teaches can find it easily.

That some Church members are wandering off the reservation is tragic. That this has occurred since day 1 is a simple historical fact. To claim that this supports an anti-Catholic bias is to suggest that the Apostles were inadequate to the task set for them by Jesus. And that suggests Jesus was mistaken. You are again confusing the judgement of men with the judgement of heaven.

The Church teaches truth regarding faith and morals. That some within the Church don't accept or fail to recognize that truth doesn't mean the truth is false.

[biblewonk]

Not that I have any hope of dissuading you here, but I recommend focusing on the foundational principles first. Otherwise it's like discussing binary math with someone struggling with Arithmetic. Discussing advanced issues when the fundamentals are different is pointless.

I've read and reread a nifty little page that contains some of DeMontfort's Marian ravings. You can call it advanced Christianity all you want but I'm not quite so easily manipulated. Sorry.

http://www.immaculateheart.com/MaryOnLine/html/cover_story_0.html#

[polemikos]

Do you even bother reading what I posted?

Focus on the basics first.
The rest will follow.

[Campion]

I've read and reread a nifty little page that contains some of DeMontfort's Marian ravings.

You mean like this:

With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, "I am he who is". Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them.

Appalling. Simply appalling. How dreadful. It's like he thinks God is more important than Mary, or something.

[conservonator]

But they are not actually held. In actuality, that is. By the actual people in the church. The actual priests and bishops.

Denial or rejection of the truth does not affect the nature of truth; it is incontrovertible, immalleable and independent of belief or practice. One priest or Bishop or one thousand priests or bishops cannot change the truth of Catholic doctrine.

Rest assured that the truths of Catholic doctrine are held and practiced by true Catholics.

[biblewonk]

Yes I'm just not wild about being talked down to.

[eastsider]

Thanks for the timely link.

[biblewonk]

Keep reading and those few little detours to reality will quickly fade.

[conservonator]

Appalling. Simply appalling. How dreadful. It's like he thinks God is more important than Mary, or something.

Gasp!

[Campion]

It's like even the devout in the RC (I mean you and others like you) have no hope that their own clergy could actually be heartfelt devotees of RC doctrine and morals. It's like things are so far gone...

No, not exactly. Let me edit ... It's like even the devout in the RC (I mean you and others like you) have no hope that all of their own clergy could actually be heartfelt devotees of RC doctrine and morals, though they know that some certainly are, and they thank God for them. It's like things are so far gone since the Fall, as though we are all radically corrupt, that, but for the grace of God, there would be no righteousness on the earth. As though there are some days when the best that can be done is to pray, "Maranatha! Come, Lord Jesus!"

Did I forget to tell you that I have subtle Calvinist tendencies? ;-)

[Campion]

I have the book at home (along with my seven or eight Bibles, the KJV among them) and have read it. I think it's great, profound ... meat for prayer ... beautiful.

[Taliesan]

Maranatha. And merry Christmas if He tarries.

[Campion]

And a Merry & Holy Christmas to you and your loved ones.

[polemikos]

My most profound and deepest apologies. It is a problem I have. I struggle with trying to keep it simple and unfortunately it often comes out pedantic (and then a trip into condescending). Please forgive me.

As for the issue at hand, I think that there are really just a few fundamental issues that separate us: sola Scriptura, the papacy, and the faith of the Fathers. Come to agreement on those, and the rest will follow. Focus on the rest, and there is no solution. (My 2 cents).

Have a joyous Christmas.

[Maximilian]

That was too easy.

Easy for you, maybe, but impressive nonetheless. And entirely convincing.

[Maximilian]

Great picture. That's my desktop image. Here is the website that has many great Bouguereau paintings saved in convenient formats to use as desktop wallpaper and screensavers:

Our Lady's Premier Gallery

[eastsider]

WOW!!! And a holy and happy Christmas to the Maximilian family, too.