Kitna fined by NFL for wearing cross on baseball cap

The Clarion Ledger ^ | December 19, 2003

[ampat]

Pro sports: Anything for money. What a bunch of greedy cretins.

[Protagoras]

As an aside, how many folks have seen NFL players wearing the caps of their favorite baseball teams, (especially the N.Y. Yankees cap after 9-11), during interviews, etc?

Not me, I don't watch those goofy interviews. If I hear one more under educated 10 million a minute athelete say, "We have to play all sixty minutes, we need to give 110%, we have to play every down, we need to,,,blah blah blah", I think I'll puke. :^}

[ampat]

Yeah I understand the rule too. Too bad they don't have similarly harsh rules for illegal behavior (breaking the law) by the players.

[ConservativeMan55]

Damn.

[Tallguy]

Not when the NFL has a television agreement with Fox and ESPN. You can always insert a clause preventing at least those 2 outlets from televising the theatrics.

I don't watch a whole lot of pro football anymore. The endzone theatrics are part of that reason. Heck, they celebrate First Downs now! What's up with that?

I miss the days when Matt Millen and Jack Lambert played. That kinda BS would end real quick. Terrell Owens would go over the middle just once more after the "Sharpie" incident -- and the hit would be clean.

[TheCrusader]

"Oh, and where does it say legitimate in reference to this? You're Acts verse to a point does, but not entirely."

I should think the verse I cited would be enough. It's just age-old, basic Christian theology that Christians do not have to follow orders or obey laws that are contrary to God's Commandments or contrary to His 'natural laws'. God, for example, does not want Chinese women to abort their baby girls just because the Chinese government insists they do. Nor does God want homosexual perverts to live together in their debauchery and reap government benefits just because the State of Vermont allows it.

When Jesus said to the Pharisees "render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, render to God what is God's", He was saying in other words, "give to Ceasar what is due him, but give to Me what is due Me". Too many people misinterpret this verse to mean "do whatever your higher ups tell you to do", and that's entirely wrong.

[TheAngryClam]

No, it just means "word."

Not capital W "Word," and not from philologos, which actually just comes from logos.

[Catspaw]

A players forehead does not belong to the NFL.

No, a player's forehead doesn't belong to the NFL, and if he wants to tattoo a cross on his forehead, he can do so.

This is about what he's putting on his head, and perhaps you and he can convince the NFL to issue a line of caps and other wearing apparel with crosses, stars of David, and other religious symbols featured.

[MissAmericanPie]

I think they are fining the daylights out of everyone because American's are mad at the Red Cross, the United Way, and some do not feel like donating to the care and advancement of the illegal alien problem.

The charities are hurting big time this year so I would imagine they are putting the touch on every entity they can lay their greasy hands on for aid.

What is the fine for that remark?

[bethelgrad]

"The rule is clear No Logos Other Than NFL Logos"


That's funny how you put that. The word "Logos" in Greek means "Word," which is a title John gives to Jesus in the gospel account bearing his name.

[bethelgrad]

Oops, should have read the rest of the posts. Someone already played off logo vs Logos. Sorry.

[joesbucks]

Nor does God want homosexual perverts to live together in their debauchery and reap government benefits just because the State of Vermont allows it.

I agree in principal. But if the state allows it, it doesn't say Christians must or should do it. But where I do draw the line is if the church sanctions it. They shouldn't. The moral institution should lead us toward no same sex unions. The government is anything but moral. Then there should be no need for a law.

And of course you realize that if the government ever begins taking their lead from the churches (which isn't likely as much as Bauer, etal would like), the next battlefield is going to be between the mainstreams, the evangelicals, the fundamentalists and the zealots as to the severity of those ideals. We may need to be cautious of what we are asking for.

[smith288]

Submitting but appealing?
Isn't that a contradiction?

I believe he has been wearing this hat for 3 years while at Cincy and now that they are winning and getting televised inteviews, the NFL has chosen that now that they want to fine him... An appeal is justified as their application of the rule is hardly fair.

Submitting to the rule is not doing it again.

[smith288]

Of course this refers to legitimate authority

Whats illegitamate about a contractual agreement between NFL and Reebok? Kitna is correct.

If the NFL said "You are fined $5000 for wearing a cross on your head" then you have a point...

[discostu]

You would, they didn't, they might not have thought about it, maybe they'll change the rule now. It's also important to note that rule only applies during the game and in the post game interview, any other interview they do they can be all logoed up in whatever they want. But the NFL considers the game and postgame interview to be their time and you're not allowed to put attention away from the NFL during their time, the players get 6 days and 20 hours to put the attention of the public on whatever else they want but during those 4 game hours the players belong to the NFL.

[RansomOttawa]

Of course this refers to legitimate authority and not the rule of some anti-Christian bigot. If anybody knows how to reach Kitna please send him this Bible verse.

"We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29)

Nothing in the Bible says God commands Christians to wear crosses on their baseball caps. Therefore it is not disobeying God not to do so, nor is the rule causing Kitna or anyone else to sin against his conscience.

[MississippiMan]

Ignoring for the moment whether or not he should be wearing it, the above statement is misinterpreted by many, IMO.

Always an interesting debate, for sure. If we always submitted to the authorities, for example, there would be no USA.

MM

[usadave]

I don't watch a whole lot of pro football anymore. The endzone theatrics are part of that reason. Heck, they celebrate First Downs now! What's up with that?

It's a cultural thing. I also hate seeing it. That's why I haven't watched a NFL game over the last two seasons.

[TheCrusader]

"Not capital W "Word," and not from philologos, which actually just comes from logos."

In Christian theology the word Logos refers strictly to "The Word", or "The Word of God" as it translates to English.

'Logos' had developed into an entire theology in Scriputre, (as John used the term in John 1: 1, again in Revelation 19:13, ). Scripture scholars, when translating the O/T from Hebrew into Aramaic have found an Aramaic term ("memra") which means "the Word" (of God).

pax Christi

[TheCrusader]

"nor is the rule causing Kitna or anyone else to sin against his conscience."

Your statement raises two very important questions that beg to be answered.

(1). How did this incident come to make national news if it weren't something that raises an issue of conscience. After all, a $5K fine in pro sports in this day and age isn't even a ripple on a pond.

(2). Why did Kitna appeal his fine?