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Taverns brace for smoking ban in different ways
Kennebuc Journal ^
| 12-15-03
| CHUIN-WEI YAP
Posted on 12/16/2003 4:18:39 AM PST by SheLion
Smokers will face a new choice of bars in the new year ahead. While some bars will be entirely smoke-free, including many in the greater Augusta area, others have spent thousands of dollars to build covered annexes for their smoking clientele in preparation for Maine's ban on smoking in bars next year.
Maine legislators (AND THE RINO'S INCLUDED) passed the ban on smoking in bars and taverns in June, joining New York, California and Delaware in extending smoke-free environments to one of the last bastions of public indoor smoking. The ban takes effect Jan. 1, and experience in other states suggests the crowds will spill onto the sidewalks to light up.
Bravo's Mexican Restaurant in Augusta is one outlet that built a patio specially to accommodate smokers.
"We built it this (past) fall, so we can have people eat and smoke outside if they want to," said Brodie Tewkesbury, the outlet's manager. "So when (the smoking ban) comes into effect, we can have people smoke outside."
The concrete patio, which is uncovered, is behind the Bangor Street restaurant.
But by and large, bars in the Augusta area are not trying to soften the blow for smokers. Those include The Wharf and The Liberal Cup in Hallowell and Tilbury Town Tavern and the Depot Pub in Gardiner.
"We're sticking with the ban," one employee at The Liberal Cup said.
Bars farther north are beating the ban, however. At least three have completed or are erecting such smoking rooms. Their owners are motivated mainly by business motivation -- to keep their smoking patrons -- but some of them also are trying to dissuade smoking customers from illegally taking their drinks with them outside for cigarette breaks.
"We don't want people going out on the street to smoke, so we're building a deck for smokers to go out and smoke in," said Jibryne "Gubby" Karter, owner of Waterville's Bob-In Tavern.
"(Otherwise) we'll have the police coming round. We want to make sure (customers) are not trying to sneak out (to smoke) with beers. That makes more of a mess on the sidewalk."
Karter is building a 12-by-20 feet enclosure. The roofed space will be open on one side, according to directions laid down by the district attorney's office. The rest of the walls are wooden, with tinted glass windows and a space heater "to take the chill out."
In all, Karter said he will sink $5,000 to $10,000 into the project.
"We got the platform section built," Karter said. "It will all be under construction until the end of next week."
On Skowhegan's Main Street, the South Side Tavern is building a latticed enclosure for its smokers.
"I'd much rather have (smoking customers) in a controlled area like that," said owner Bart Hughes, a nonsmoker.
Like the other tavern owners, Hughes had to wade through a small sea of bureaucracy to get the annex up. That includes inspections by the Fire Department and the state's liquor licensing agents. The Waterville bars got approvals from the local code enforcement officers as well as the district attorney's office.
South Side's smoking patrons are pleased.
"I like it," said Eben Miller, 48. "Ninety percent of people who come in here smoke."
Other bar owners, including nonsmokers, are more strident in opposing the ban.
"The more comfortable I make it, the less it hurts me," said Fred Karter, the nonsmoking owner of Waterville's Chez bar. "I want to show my customers I appreciate them. It's pretty unfair. They let private clubs do it (allow indoor smoking). I've never smoked in my life, but I don't consider smokers criminals. We think we have to regulate everything."
Fred Karter is building an 11-by-20-foot latticed annex shielded with glass panels. He is spending more than $4,000 on construction materials and building much of it himself. He estimates that 98 percent of his customers smoke.
But for the annex builders, it is a matter of doing business.
"It's an intangible -- 75 percent of my people drink and smoke, and a lot of people tell me they only smoke in bars," said Bob-In's Gubby Karter. "How much will (the new ban) affect us? Initially about 10 percent. I'm hoping it's not worse than that. We're doing everything we can to accommodate (the smokers). We don't want 20 people outside with their butts on the ground and everything."
Chuin-Wei Yap - 8619253
ychuin@centralmaine.com
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Maine
KEYWORDS: airpollution; antismokers; badbreath; bans; butts; cigarettes; individualliberty; michaeldobbs; niconazis; prohibitionists; pufflist; smellyclothes; smokingbans; smokingstinks; stinkyhands; taxes; tobacco; yellowteeth
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This might work in SOUTHERN MAINE, but in NORTHERN MAINE decks just won't cut it. We had 30 inches of snow yesterday with 30 mph winds and sub zero temps. Decks outside? This is rediculous!
They always say there is "two Maines......." well, this just goes to prove it!
Outside smoking decks my arze!
1
posted on
12/16/2003 4:18:40 AM PST
by
SheLion
To: Madame Dufarge; metesky; ozone1; pkmaine; Atomic Vomit; ROCKLOBSTER; mlmr; bogeybob; BM.Maine; ...
2
posted on
12/16/2003 4:20:54 AM PST
by
SheLion
(Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
To: SheLion
It's only gonna get wierder from here on in. Rose and I won't go out anymore.
3
posted on
12/16/2003 4:39:26 AM PST
by
metesky
(Kids, don't let this happen to you!)
To: SheLion
Ah, the Chez in Waterville!
I knee-walked home from their a few times.
4
posted on
12/16/2003 4:42:34 AM PST
by
billorites
(freepo ergo sum)
To: metesky
It's only gonna get wierder from here on in. Rose and I won't go out anymore. Come 1 January, me either. If they think for one minute that I will go out to eat, spend MY money and sit there without enjoying a relaxing smoke, they can ALL kiss my azz!
Stubborn? You bet I am! I refuse to stand outside to smoke for ANYONE! If I can't smoke at a restaurant or bar/tavern, I won't GO!
What's that saying? "HELL NO I WON'T GO!" heh!
And our RINO Lawmakers in Augusta just couldn't fight for us, could they? Oh! Of COURSE not! They are all warm and cozy in their little "private smoking rooms!"
b a r f!
5
posted on
12/16/2003 4:46:57 AM PST
by
SheLion
(Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
To: SheLion
I don't think the decks will work in Southern Maine either.
Consdering they do't work in Delaware because it gets dang cold and that's how many 100s of miles south of Maine.
6
posted on
12/16/2003 4:50:09 AM PST
by
Gabz
(Smoke gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - swat'em!!!)
To: SheLion
And the 'skeeters will get you in the summer.
7
posted on
12/16/2003 4:51:52 AM PST
by
verity
To: SheLion
Nope!
B.C.'s weather in the winter is much milder than anywhere around the east coast of Canada or the United States.
The decks are not cutting it here either.
Funny:
Most municipalities under the so-called WCB. B.C. provincial smoking ban...
(There are 8 that police and enforce there own harsher smoking bylaws here, some like Victoria do not allow smoking rooms(DSRs)and most like Vancouver city allow tiny smoking rooms, not the size of the provincial standard.)
The problem is many of the business owners here have not constructed good-sized, ventilated DSRs.
Some have and are doing a booming business.
Others went smoke-free, in an attempt to save money.
Most of those places have now applied to build DSRs or smoking patios.
Here is the kicker:
The WCB would rather see you build an indoor smoking room with good ventilation than convert or construct a new or old smoking patio as a semi-indoor-outdoor smoking area.
They will not allow such a patio-smoking area to have four walls unless...
There is an expensive reverse-ventilation system installed as well.
So you might as well build a smoking room.
Over 400 businesses have applied to build new smoking rooms in the province within the last 6 months.
Some rooms here are terrific others, even hardcore smokers wouldn't enter.The ventilation is so poor.
Vancouver's legal smoking rooms:
None of them would pass the WCB provincial code that I have been in.
There total size can be no more than 14 sq. ft. by 14 sq. ft.
Back to the topic of smoking decks...
Over 20 places I know of who have good smoking decks, that are mostly enclosed(4 walls)and heated have come under WCB inspector fire.
One pub advertised itself as smoke-free during the WCB smoking ban in 2000.
They lost so much money that they built a smoking deck almost the size of the entire bar in front at it's entrance.
It was surrounded in plexiglass with nice wood-trim all around.
The WCB o.k.ed the patio after the ban was tossed out in court...
Now they have told the owners the patio is to big and too enclosed.The WCB have said either take down the front wall or the two side walls of the deck and make it 15% smaller or face large fines.
The owner's only real option now is to spend even more money, the original deck cost over 40k...is to install an expensive reverse-ventilation system and seal off all four walls.
The outdoor smoking deck, thing gets old really fast with some smokers.
Usually young people or older people trying to quit accept indoor smoking prohibition better than the rest of the smoking public.
I know a number of smokers who originally welcomed the smoking ban here, as a means to help them quit have had a huge change of heart.
Many of them rarely go out or stay as long as they used to before smoking was banned.
Even with heated decks.
When the weather is shitty or nice many bar-night-club customers, just stay home and drink at house parties.
Complacent business owners and politically correct, anti-smoking politicians just don't get it.
The tourism industry is continually suffering in Vancouver, Victoria and the other 6 municipalities that have their own tougher bans than the provincial standard.
Yet these fuckers won't back down into accepting the B.C. WCB provincial standard that allows for:
All restaurants and bars to have smoking rooms up to 45% of the business's total area as DSR.
In gambling venues or bingos up to 65% of the area can be DSR.
We won a huge victory of sorts in B.C.
In the year 2000 most municipalities had complete 100% smoking bans.
With no exemptions or DSRs allowed.
Now restaurant smoking via DSR has made a return in many B.C. locales.
Of course the anti-smoking groups are trying to get the DSRs removed.
This government will not do it.
They realize the implications and the negative impacts this would have and have had on tourism here.
Their original plan was to have all the municipalities minus Victoria accept the provincial standards.
Many of these municipalities did just that.
Others like Vancouver city and Victoria have spend hundreds of thousands of dollars foolishly, policing their own
Nazi-smoking bylaws.
I truly believe in Maine future winters will be bitter for most bar and nightclubs.
Even with smoking patios.
Spring-Summer seasons will become their bread and butter.
If they hope to survive, especially the "little guys."
This is not going to be accepted in the way the antis, politicians and some complacent business owners believe.
It's not much fun going to an empty bar or club, paying premium prices for drinks and being forced outside in shitty weather or onto a crummy smoking patio to smoke.
People will stay home save money and go out less often.
The "hordes" of non-smoking customers will never appear.
Maine or B.C. is not silly, California.
In B.C. you can drink and get food service on patios, on decks and in DSRs.
I loved that article about the uncovered deck in Maine.
That's going attract hordes of smokers in the pissing rain, cold and snow.
Sure it will.
I can see many of these business owners having a serious change of heart over a short period of time.
They did it here too and we have much better overall weather conditions in British Columbia, Canada.
8
posted on
12/16/2003 4:59:47 AM PST
by
roxxon
(Regards, Roxxon)
To: Gabz; SheLion
I don't think the decks will work in Southern Maine either. Consdering they do't work in Delaware because it gets dang cold ... I concur with that assessment. It was cold and windy here yesterday, and most people (probably all) would have been darn uncomfortable outdoors after less than half a minute -- unless well bundled up. I know I was uncomfortable just unoading groceries w/o gloves.
Granted, Northern Maine is --much-- more severe, weatherwise, but outdoor decks won't be any help to limit reduction in business due to restricting smoking to the outdoors.
9
posted on
12/16/2003 5:03:14 AM PST
by
Cboldt
To: Cboldt
Granted, Northern Maine is --much-- more severe, weatherwise, but outdoor decks won't be any help to limit reduction in business due to restricting smoking to the outdoors. It all boils down to this:
10
posted on
12/16/2003 5:09:30 AM PST
by
SheLion
(Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
To: roxxon
This is not going to be accepted in the way the antis, politicians and some complacent business owners believe. You've got that right.
11
posted on
12/16/2003 5:13:11 AM PST
by
Gabz
(Smoke gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - swat'em!!!)
To: Madame Dufarge; metesky; ozone1; pkmaine; Atomic Vomit; ROCKLOBSTER; mlmr; bogeybob; BM.Maine; ...
By-The-Way:
12
posted on
12/16/2003 5:24:06 AM PST
by
SheLion
(Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
To: SheLion; Laura Earl; xsmommy
Ping to exploited kittie.
13
posted on
12/16/2003 5:32:41 AM PST
by
Conspiracy Guy
(Clues for sale, 20 % off through Christmas. Don't be clueless, buy yours today.)
To: SheLion
Cute cat SheLion. Reminds me I need a replacement feline.
14
posted on
12/16/2003 5:41:04 AM PST
by
steve50
("There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner.")
To: steve50
I took in a stray a couple of months ago and I am more than willing to pass it on to you. I am finding out I am just not a "cat person".
15
posted on
12/16/2003 5:42:53 AM PST
by
CSM
(Councilmember Carol Schwartz (R.-at large), my new hero! The Anti anti Smoke Gnatzie!)
To: SheLion
Freakin' Regulators! Vote the bums out!
16
posted on
12/16/2003 5:44:32 AM PST
by
Judith Anne
(Send a message to the Democrat traitors--ROCKEFELLER MUST RESIGN!)
To: Judith Anne
If only it were so easy.
17
posted on
12/16/2003 5:47:01 AM PST
by
Gabz
(Smoke gnatzies - small minds buzzing in your business - swat'em!!!)
To: steve50
Cute cat SheLion. Reminds me I need a replacement feline. I'm open for adoption! heh!
18
posted on
12/16/2003 5:54:39 AM PST
by
SheLion
(Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
To: Judith Anne
Freakin' Regulators! Vote the bums out! I'd love to do to our lawmakers what they did to Davis in California!
19
posted on
12/16/2003 5:55:54 AM PST
by
SheLion
(Curiosity killed the cat BUT satisfaction brought her back!!!)
To: SheLion
smokeless tobacco will rise!Half smoked cigars will get chewed, people will wear the patch after they eat, and the rest of the non smokers will not have to share.
Always a way to get your nicotine.
Ops4 God BLess America!
20
posted on
12/16/2003 6:01:56 AM PST
by
OPS4
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